Here is a new FAQ page that the PGC has put on their website regarding crossbows. Alot of great info here for those with questions.

Also, notice the answers to the optics questions.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=460&Q=175892&PM=1

I think its a huge mistake and I dont like it... You might as well consider the first day of archery the first day of rifle season. I am an avid archer and I still believe the archery season is to long. This rule change compounds the problem. To many big bucks shot in early archery season before they have reproduced. Not to mention the fact that about everyone I know is rushing to the archery shop to buy a crossbow. These are the same people who never had the patience, time or desire required to shoot a compound bow. There assumption is that the crossbows so much more capable than a compound.. WRONG.. I have both and I have shot competitively with both for several years. To many people in the woods, to many deer with arrows hang'in out of them from 50 yard pop shots, to many big bucks shot to early in the pre rut.... Tell me one thing, whats one positive that this does for Pennsylvania white tail hunting? And please dont tell me that its a better piece of equiptment which enables a hunter to make more accurate kill shot.. BS.. bring your crossbow to my range and I will snap or come within an inch of every arrow you put in the target inside 30 yards with my compound from years of practice... I have just over $2,000 in my crossbow and its not nearly as accurate and as far as energy.. you can kill a deer with a rock if you hit it in the right place, its not about energy.. Maybe its assumed that archery stamp sales will improve and generate more revenue. Guess again, I know allot of hard core hunters that have bought licenses for years that will no longer. but they will still hunt. This is about money and its nothing more than a half a** short cut which is a common trend in the new "American way" and im struggle'in to adjust to this and allot of other things... Just my opinion

Doc,

Tks for putting up the link to the FAQ page.

IRONHORSE,

We’re glad to see that you got that off your chest.  Now whenever you get to the point in your life that you can no-longer put an arrow in a 2 or 3 inch circle at 30 yards are you saying that you are going to give up archery hunting? You see some of us didn’t qualify for an xbow permits yet we couldn’t consistently put an arrow in a 2 or 3 inch circle at 30 yards regardless of how much practice we did.  And from my perspective the deer are too valuable of a resource to waste on bad hits.

Now we can get back out there with confidence and enjoy some of the early season hunting and to me that is a positive thing for Pennsylvania deer hunting. Will there be a lot of people get xbows, yep, will there be a lot of people quit because of xbows, maybe. From your observations it sounds like to me there will not be too many additional hunters in the woods. Bottom line is you choose the weapon of your choice in which you have confidence in and go enjoy the Pennsylvania outdoors. Oh by the way I have taken deer with a long bow, recurve and compound bows and hopefully next year I’ll be able to harvest one with my xbow.  Just added my two cents..

I'm hearing there still may be some refining in April...

the magnified scope thing is still getting tossed around... but I hope they leave that as is 1x.. no more... that will cut down on the long distance shooting that MAY occur by some of the less dedicated crossbowers..

and the UBP is pressuring for a permit for the crossbows.. which I think has more to do with sour grapes than anything....

IronHorse,

As you pointed out, this crossbow thing is not all that is cracked up to be for those with no archery experience.  Archery hunting will remain a close range sport where playing the wind, scouting and woodsmanship will trump any advantage if any that a crossbow might have.  

These new crossbow hunters, and there will be a good bump initially, will soon find out that they must hunt and learn to be successful.

The advantage hopefully in the long run will be some increase in archery participation from those that might have never considered archery, those that gave it up for various reasons,  and more importantly retention of those that we already have.  We have lost 60,000 archers in 10 years time.  Not good.

The PGC has pledged to monitor this closely which should be the case.  In 2012 we can revisit and see what the data shows.  

--Last edited by dpms on 2009-02-18 07:43:48 --

Quote :

the magnified scope thing is still getting tossed around... but I hope they leave that as is 1x.. no more... that will cut down on the long distance shooting that MAY occur by some of the less dedicated crossbowers.. and the UBP is pressuring for a permit for the crossbows.. which I think has more to do with sour grapes than anything....

Yes it will be looked at and ammended most likely.  Personally, I have no problem with the 1X restriction but I do recognize that this will affect the current disabled permit holders and the thousands of archers in the SRA that currently own crossbows with magnified optics on them.  

As to the able bodied hunters in the SRA, swapping out optics seems a small price to pay for the opportunity to use the crossbow statewide.  But JMHO.

If the optics restriction remains I would like to see the disabled permit folks keep their optics of choice.

You guys are still comparing compounds with the OLD CROSSBOWS. Take a hard look at the specs on the NEW crossbows and remember they are promising even more improvements. Rifle like trigger pull and one inch groups at 100 yards does not compare to archery equipment IMO. As far as reviewing it in 2012 does anyone really believe they would do anything except possibaly reduce the season. They aren't going to remove crossbows from hunting once many folks have bought them. That would be political sucicide.

Yes S-10, some of those new crossbows are impressive at the range.  Still, significant drop past 50 yards and deflections and shooting windows become an issue in the woods.  

I agree that crossbows are probably here to stay.  We will find out over the next few years what the numbers say.  If in fact crossbows are shown to have had a negative impact, the PCF has already said they will ask for a reduction in the length of time that crossbows would be legal during the existing 6 week archery season.  

Hopefully the numbers show minimal impact.  Time will tell.

We will NOT be going down the let's take the most expensive.. high tech... etc.. style of any weapon and be using that as a basis for what the average joe will be using  for his choice of weapon.....  just won't allow it....
thanks

Dpms, I hope your right and I hope it is monitored and adjusted accordingly but I must say im sceptical. The decrease in archery hunters is a skewed statistic. Lets consider the reason for the drop, perhaps the decline in deer population which will only get worse with this rule change?  Or perhaps the lack of ambition a hunter has to hunt sub standard bucks? Which again will only get worse with this rule change based on the number of mature dominate bucks being killed prior to reproduction.

OBSERVER, where do I start.. Well lets just say if by chance you CANT shoot a compound bow then you infact did qualify for a crossbow permit. Read the requirements for a crossbow permit and you will find that it reads "You are not physical capable to draw a bow" so if for some medical reason you in fact cant draw a bow then you are/were elligible, So please have your facts. But I understand, its easier to take the easy road, after all its the new American way.. And at whos expense? The PA whitetailed deer herd thats whos expense... and dont worry, for you and all of those who think the crossbow is so much more capable of killing without the art of being a true archer, the true archers of the state (like me) will clean up your mess'es as best as possible. When your 12 point runs by me with an arrow stuck in its gut... I"LL BE SURE TO KILL IT!!! if your not physically able to be in the woods archery hunting, notice I said archery hunting not crossbow shooting. Then do the sport a favor and dont go. I believe its your/our responsibility as hunters to give every animal thats considered game a fair chance. You see, I truely do love this sport and it is for that reason that when the day comes I am no longer by my definition a skilled archer.. I'LL QUIT out of respect fot the sport that has given me years of enjoyment. Its people who assume they dont have to be good at this and take responsibilty for there own actions that give the liberals of this world all the ammo they need to attack hunting in general... Consider golf, its fun to  

I just read my post and it seems much more harsh than I intended. I meant everything I said but perhaps it didnt come out exactly right. Please dont think im being confrontational,  but I do enjoy a good debate and as a nurse I believe its theraputic. I am 35 years old, have Chrohns disease, Factor 5 Leiden which has left half of my left lung useless from a blood clot, i've been treated for intestinal cancer twice, had a colostomy bag for 2 years, have half a right foot from a car wreck, broke my collar bone twice, dislocated my shoulder, have had both knees reconstructed (left one twice) and I still hunt with a compound bow so this subject matter really gets me on the edge of my seat, sepecially when people say "they cant" hunt with a bow. I hope you enjoy this type of conversation as much as I do and Im thankful that these forums exist to make it possible.  

I am not sure I am going to allow this  to turn into a bash crossbow hunters topic.. that can be found on every other board out there...

so let's slow down on all the assumptions about crossbow hunters being any less of a true sportsman...becasue they choose to  taking up an easier sporting arm.. no one is saying that a crossbow does not have easier features than a traditional or compound.. but again that does not lower his standing in the sporting world...  just in some folks opinions...
and there are rifle hunters out there that already think that of archers in general because of hunting less pressured deer for 6 weeks  .... so we won't go there on this board.

The crossbow is easier to use there is no getting away from that fact.. BUT it also has its draw-backs..

anyone "releasing arrows/bolts" at a deer has to be skilled at two things..

1.. getting within range for a good shot and 2. skilled at being able to hit "the mark".

there are folks this past season using those arrow/bolt sporting arms that do not practice enough and are not really skilled..
but by no means do I think it is a huge number...

adding any hunter with that lack of skills will increase the wounded deer  and hunters doing that that are not skilled at the use of their weapon of choice I refer to slobs.. I don't care what type weapon they use..

to assume the majority of crossbow hunters will be anything less than skilled and ethical hunters is just insulting to both the person saying it and receiving the insult..  

those assumptions are what has lead to this huge despute  in the first place..

talk about differences etc .. but not all this doom and gloom assumptions....

There will be no more antlerless deer killed because of crossbows than already being killed by successful hunters...... there may be just more killed before the rut, which many say is NOT a bad thing.. the allocations control the number of does killed -- not sporting arm used.....

I killed 2 last season and next year I'll be able to kill the same two only in October and with a crossbow.. net difference in doe harvest will be ZERO...

will more bucks be killed .. time will tell.. there is that chance but those taking up the crossbow and thinking getting in range is easy will find out that that is not true.. just by carrying a crossbow does not mean ease in getting within range nor does it increase your odds of a harvest if you are NOT skilled in the "shot placement"...

#1 FACT the decision has been made.. and we will live with it like it or not until the subject is looked at in 2012...

then there will be facts about harvest increases etc... and changes may be needed....

so let's stick to facts we can support and not go on a general witch hunt just because we do not like a weapon...

the weapon does not make the man using it PERIOD !!!!!  

--Last edited by Dr Trout on 2009-02-18 14:59:18 --

This by no means is an attack on a weapon or its operator. It is my opinion as well as some valid, undesputable facts about a subject matter. So although you may not agree typically in an open forum everyones opinion is welcome, not just the ones that the majority agree with. As noted in my original post, I own a crossbow, I like it, I think its neat...

   

Yep its offical we beat the Crossbow issue to death.  I know i want one will use one and will get my deer with one.  To me it is a lot more sporting than a rifle so hey it should be fun!  

--Last edited by Flyfisher on 2009-02-18 15:44:41 --

Quote :

FlyFisher wrote :  I know i want one will use one and will get my deer with one.  To me it is a lot more sporting than a rifle so hey it should be fun!

Good luck on your decision and if you have any questions I can try to help.  

I welcome "clean" debate... I just wanted to slow this crossbow hunters are going to be slobs stuff down on this site....

I'll use what you wrote as an example.. but in no way am I chastizing you in particular...

I just don't want guys who post here to bring the BS here now from other boards.

Quote :

These are the same people who never had the patience, time or desire required to shoot a compound bow.

My point is that does not make them a bad person.... and that type probably will be among the first to find it still takes patience, time and effort... and will quit after the first year or two.

I know guys who do not even hunt because they do not have the time, patience or desire. and guys who are even leaving fishing for lack of free time..

And I know there will be some who do not take up  the crossbow because it DOES take time to master even that sporting arm ...

and there are thousands who never even thought about archery hunting and preferred to use a rifle which is probably the least time consuming weapon but even then I know guys who don't do alot of target shooting to be really skilled there either.... and the successful ones put in time there too scouting.. those that don't put in that time are less successful also...

I'm just trying  to keep the crossbow subject above board and not allow anyone to be accused of being lazy or a slob beacause of choosing a crossbow as their weapon of choice now that that opportunity is out there.

I really hate even myself for having to point out there are lazy, slob, unethical hunters out there in every season and using ever weapon....  but we all know it is true and we all at least know folks that fall into some of those types...

that type talk is what I am trying to avoid....

not the pro and cons of a crossbow.. compound.. or traditional bow... or comparing the weapons...

just like this one..

wait until some of these guys find out how heavy crossbows can be and are especially how front heavy when rasied to your shoulder... many will be put off by the price too...

alot of guys are buying into all this hype that the manufactuers are putting out there about crossbows too...

I tell folks.. think of what that used car salesman tells you...  not all of it is true 100% of the time..  some is STRETCHED.. they want to sell you something.. in this case  --- crossbows......


NO OFFENSE IRON HORSE..
just used a car salesman as an example.  

--Last edited by Dr Trout on 2009-02-18 16:07:13 --

Here's a crossbow topic  I like to see opinions on and we can discuss without dealing with the type of user...

Just why do you think the BOC okayed the crossbow with full inclusion...

money ???
HB2653 ???
to prove a point ???
they don't like the UBP ???
a hidden adgenda ??
wanted to PO archers in general ???

what say you ??????????  

--Last edited by Dr Trout on 2009-02-18 16:30:01 --

Uncle Ted Nugent promised them all a photograph with him when he met with some of them to help sell the idea.-------Actually the crossbow has been a weapon looking for a legitimite use for years and there has been a lot of money spent lobbying trying to convince the various states to legalize it for hunting. Without hunting to justify it the crossbow sales would always be a small segement of the business.  The selling point was more hunters and the money that came with it but there isn't much data to support more hunters. There is data to show current hunters buying crossbows.

I'm getting one, but I'm waiting until after the April meeting...

If my shoulder tears just a bit more I may be joining you. It's 87 yards from my back porch to a apple tree at the end of my yard. I won't even have to worry about falling out of a tree anymore. Just sit in a easy chair and sip coffee and wait. PSE will be happy but the PGC won't gain a thing.