I think people will find this interesting.

Notice what Pennsylvania Sportsmen Group they are using to support their agruements.






January 28, 2009

PRESS RELEASE

People throughout the US and in PA are becoming aware of the great increase
in killing. The economic situation is painful: to lose one's job, one's
home, one's future. But to hold your child in your arms, killed from a
school shooting or collateral damage from an urban driveby, or to be or have
a family member killed in rural America, where the FBI says killings are
increasing substantially, is worse.

The culture glorifying killing must be ended. And in PA it starts with
glorifying killing by the people who just like to kill things (their words)
for recreation. They call it the "great tradition of hunting" and say if
they don't teach it to their kids by the time the kids are 8, the kids don't
want to participate.

But this is not a great tradition. Hunting is what you do for your car keys.
When you find them, you don't gleefully and with high-tech weapons kill them
for fun. It is killing for fun.

It is a perversion of the PA constitution which gives the natural resources
of PA including wildlife to all the people and of the Game Code which
entrusts the management of the wildlife to the Game Commission, not to breed
more deer and other wildlife for killers to kill for fun but to conserve and
maintain them.

Groups and individuals across PA are coming more and more to an awareness of
the need to bring the preservation of our wildlife back to the principles of
the great conservationists llike Teddy Roosevelt and to the principles of
love and living with others so needed in this twenty-first century, here at
home and around the world.

PA Wildlife Alliance has asked Gov Rendell and the senators of PA to
recognize the need to return to preservation principles of our natural
resources in the letter below and shall begin to talk with them about
correcting the perversion of the Game Commission. They will be speaking with
the Senate and House Game Committees; they will be speaking to parents,
decent people, and school children through this year, 2009, the year of the
deer.

Please help us and carry the word to the people. Faith, hope, and love - and
the greatest of these is love - not killing.

PA Wildlife Alliance

PA WILDLIFE ALLIANCE

20 Walker Road

Macungie PA 18062


January 19, 2009



Dear Governor Rendell and Senators of Pennsylvania,

In May of 2007 the killing of defenseless animals for recreation was brought
to our attention when the executive of Lehigh County signed an agreement
with the Pennsylvania Game Commission to permit killing deer and wild turkey
on the North Range of the Trexler Game Preserve, a fenced and posted animal
sanctuary General Trexler created in 1906 and willed to Lehigh County. We
were horrified by this destruction of a 100-year-old animal sanctuary.

When we went to the Game Commission website to get information, we were more
horrified by the membership of the Game Commission Board (quotes are from
Game Commission abstracts):

Roxanne Palone: "lifelong [killing animals for recreation] enthusiast" MA forest management, West Virginia University

Russell Schleiden: "active [killer of animals for recreation] since age 12"

Greg Isabella: "[killer of animals for recreation] for 30 years"

Tom Boop: "lifelong [killer of animals for recreation]"

Dan Hill: "lifelong active [killer of animals for recreation]"

Dave Shreffler: member of clubs for killing animals for recreation forestry manager, Maryland Forestry Association

James Delaney: "avid [killer of animals for recreation] of 32 years"

Ronald Weaner: "lifelong [killer of animals for recreation]" teaching emphasis on forestry
farmer

This membership is in contravention of the Pennsylvania constitution, which
states:

Sec 27: The people have a right . . . to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic
and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania's public natural resources are
the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee
of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit
of all the people. [our emphases] and of the Pennsylvania Game and Wildlife Code, which states:

103.a. The ownership, jurisdiction over and control of game or wildllife is
vested in the commission.

b. The commission shall utilize hunting and trapping as methods of
effecting necessary management of game, furbearer and wildlife populations.
[our emphases]

The animals belong to all the people. Killing animals for recreation does
not conserve or maintain them for all the people and, with knowledge, is
rarely if ever necessary for their management.

Appointing recreational killers to the board charged with managing wildlife
populations is a perversion of the purpose of the Game Commission. Instead
of the Game Commission managing wildlife populations to conserve and
maintain them for the benefit of all the people, the board made up of avid
lifelong killers for recreation is managing wildlife for the recreation of a
small group of people. The Game Commission puts in food plots and improves
habitat for deer to provide more deer each year for killers to have to kill
for recreation. This is not conserving or maintaining wildlife, and it is
grossly inhumane and barbaric in the civilization of the twenty-first
century. You do not raise animals to kill for fun.

"There are too many deer" has been used as an excuse for the killing. But
the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania are suing the Game Commission for not
providing them enough deer to kill for fun. Advisory Councils for the Game
Commission in 24 of the 25 GC Wildlife Management Units have said there are
too few deer.

You are responsibile for appointing or approving Game Commission Board
members, with three appointments out of eight members to be made now. It is
vitally important that you appoint wildlife specialists, conservation biologists, who have knowledge and attitude to conserve and maintain wildlife for the benefit of all the people.

Game commissions in states were originally established¯in Pennsylvania in
1895¯at the urging of the great conservationists of the turn of the last
century like Teddy Roosevelt. Game officers were originally called animal
protectors. It seems probable that the perversion of the ideal of conserving
wildlife is due to funding the Game Commission with hunting license fees
(and logging).

The commission should be funded by general funds. But now in a time of great
economic problems, the funding to achieve its conervation purpose can be
initiated in various ways. We give some examples; thought should produce
others. The public can contribute if a line is added to the state income tax
return where individuals can donate $20 or more for the support of the
commission. Another wildlife license plate can be instituted. The state game
lands (1.4 million acres), deeded to the PA Commonwealth to be used by the
commission, can and should be opened, developed, and used as state parks for
all the people. A moderate entrance fee can be charged to support the
commission and maintain these parks.

As development continues in Pennsylvania, wildlife will be more pressed by
human incursion. We do not want to deprive our descendents of enjoying the
soul-restoring esthetic values of land and wildlife. And we want to provide
a place for wildlife to continue to exist and to be managed knowledgably and
humanely, not killed or wounded and left to die for the recreation of a few.

We note that in 2003 you created by executive order an Advisory Council for
[Killling] and Conservation to make recommendations to you for appointments
to the Game Commission Board. That is a contradiction in itself: Killing is
in no way or ever conservation. Conservation is bandied about to make
killing sound good and enable it to continue for the fun of a small avid
group. Killing is not good, ever. If, after scientific consideration of
problems and how to deal with them by wildlife biologists, killing is a
necessity, it should be done with sorrow, not avid recreation.

You stated in announcing the council that it was to provide the "best
possible advice on [killing]." The head advisor you appointed to be an
"advocate for [killers] and conservationists" is also proud to be another
"lifelong [killer]" (in the site biography). The council tells us applicants
to the Game Commission Board are evaluated on the basis of their support for
killing animals.

Managing the wildlife of Pennsylvania and the Game Commission's role in
doing so are important for their conservation and maintenance for all the
people. We submit you, governor and senators, must immediately and carefully
consider and correct the perversion of this purpose of the Pennsylvania
constitution and of the great conservationists and appoint and approve
members to the Game Commission Board based on their qualifications for
managing wildlife to conserve and maintain them for all the people of
Pennsylvania and generations yet to come as development continues and
diminishes wildlands - conservation biologists, not people to raise animals
for avid killers to kill for recreation.

Governor Rendell, we herewith request a meeting with you for our board to
discuss such qualifications for appointment to the Game Commission Board and
to present suggestions of wildlife conservationists for appointment.

Thank you for your consideration and we respectfully request a reply as soon
as possible.



Sincerely,



Carol A. Loomis



Carol A. Loomis, Secretary

PA Wildlife Alliance, with the support of but not limited to the following
organizations and their membership throughout Pennsylvania:

Citizens Task Force on the Trexler Game Preserve

Preserve the Preserve

Freedom for Animals

Friends of the Game Preserve

Global Wildlife Alliance Hillside SPCA, Pottsville, PA

Humane League of Philadelphia

Lehigh Gap Nature Center

Lehigh Valley Animal Rights Coalition

Make Peace with Animals

MidAtlantic Animal Rights Coalition

Mobilization for Animals Pennsylvania

New Hope for Deer

Nonlethal Options for Animals

Preserve the Preserve

Public Eye: Artists for Animals

Reach Out for Animal Rights

Students for Animal Protection

Tyler Park Woods

Wildlife Friends

Yardley Park Deer

and these organizations are backed with BIG money...

Thanks for sharing that RSB..

gives a person much to think about..

I'll reply later, see what others think first...

Wellll- here is my take on it. It's just another example of the anti hunter movement we are facing and the various ways they attack the sport. To make something out of the fact the USP was brought into it means nothing unless you want to put them in with Teddy Roosevelt who we all know was a very avid Sport Hunter.
  One of the mistakes we are making in fighting these groups is trying to justify hunting as necessary to keep the population in control. While that is a side benefit of our sport it never was the reason for hunting and the anti hunters are using the pretense that is against us. Even now the anti hunters have succeded in removing sport hunting from listing as a recreational activity on the state forest. We now are considered as merely a tool to keep the deer population down. The ultimate stated goal of the various anti hunters and enviromental groups is to return the country to the place where the predator prey populations are in sync and there is no reason for hunting and in fact the wildlife population would not support it. We see it in the West and in Alaska where the introduced wolf population is decemiating the game herds and in our own state the hawks, owls, coyotes, fishers, bears, etc along with over hunting the does has nearly succeded in destroying our prey population for hunting on much of the state forests, ANF, and game lands. It will only take one or two harsh winters (perhaps this one) to push the already reduced  deer herd over the edge in these areas. Hunting is a legal, honorable,sport that provides countless hours of recreational enjoyment, meat for the table, and jobs for many. It needs to be protected as that and if it is not then at some point the predators and natural mortality will keep the deer in check and we will be pushed out as no longer needed. The USP are correct to fight for sufficient animals (whatever number that is)to enable people to enjoy the hunting(harvest) experience. These groups are like terrorsts in the fact that they will be satisfied with nothing less than NO HUNTING and we need to admit that and fight them with that in mind. My 2c.

"Even now the anti hunters have succeded in removing sport hunting from listing as a recreational activity on the state forest."

s-10,

That's not true. Hunting is listed on Forestry's website on it's Recreation Page.

The state forest is being run by the Forest Stewardship Council under the guise of forest certification. As part of that they have a large book of rules, agreements, policies and standards. Two things stand out in that mass of words. One states (inappropiate hunting, trapping, fishing, and collecting shall be controlled.) Hunting is only appropiate until the balance is reached-my words. More significantly the document states the appropriate recreational activities on the forest---Bicycling showes twice in the list and hunting does not show at all. This is the document that is to be used to determine continued certification. It tells me we will be considered a necessary evil until their goal is reached. And don't forget in the early stages one of DCNR's own said as much in a public meeting. Of course he got hushed at the time but the document seems to back him up.

S-10, I don't quite understand what message your are trying to send.

Quote :

"hunting does not show at all"

Are you saying DCNR is trying to grow the deer herd bigger through Forest Certification --- protecting the deer herd?

Bowbum- Just the opposite and perhaps to really understand you have to research the Forest Stewardship Council as to who they are, where and why they started and who their supporters are. Reducing the deer herd and increasing the predators until hunting is no longer needed is the side game of most of the organizations that originally came together to form this group. The leadership of the DCNR and some timber companies are allowing this to happen for a number of reasons.Their method is to set the rules governing forest management by convincing folks that it is better to let them call the shots rather than fight them in court as happens on the ANF. While there are a couple mainstream groups involved, such folks as Greenpeace and the Defenders of Wildlife (the wolf folks)are very active. Their international Headquarters are in Bonn Germany and the SCS (the ones that certify compliance) headquarters in Calif. Not a good idea to have these folks telling us how to run Pa's state forests IMO. There is a whole raft of info on them on the net if you have the time and desire to research it and follow them back to the beginning. They sound good until you research what they do and who they are.  

These are very old and repeatedly debunked, (“false”), claims that you are making.

The “conspiracy” theory guys went quiet when “none” of what they predicted took place over the last 6 years.

It was tied in with Slinsky’s “fewer than 50,000 statewide by 2009” wild claims!

I "did" research FSC and SCS YEARS AGO and found no, ("none" of those links you claim.
I did find an well-established history of forest management world wide and an acceptance of and support for continued populations of wildlife toi support recreational hunting.

S-10 still believes in all those "OLD" statements, studies, and articles

most of his deer "claims" are still  based on what Dr Alt said long ago or studies from other states that are not like Pa at all...

Those are the basis for his opinions and he is not going to change them no matter what NEW stuff comes along.




He just wants to stay with the info back then becuase it supports his claims...  

--Last edited by Dr Trout on 2009-02-03 09:00:00 --

I thinnk I will agree with S-10--coyotes weren't always here, nor fishers and for that metter cougars/mountain lions (I've never seen a cougar in PA but there certainly are enough sightings and evidence that they are here--all these predators were here in PA back in the 1800's but were pretty well eradicated.  I began roaming the woods at 9 years old-1959- and up until maybe 10-15 years ago I never saw or heard of coyotes in PA and fishers just came on the seen a few years ago. I have seen what a band of coyotes does to deer as well as turkeys--plenty of evidence here on the farm-and have you been small game hunting lately--no squirrels, grouse, or rabbits---quite tasty fair for the fisher!! Where did they all come from if not introduced??
Yes, I suppose I am one of the "conspiracy" theorists, but I have learned over the years that when our government tells us "it's for our own good", I've learned to bend over because here it comes!!!
You can refute these claims all you want, but when the UN controls certain of our National Parks (Biospheres), it leads me to believe that we are losing our soveriegnty as a nation and a government by the people.  And that worries me to no end!!!

while many claim to have not seen coyotes "back then" and think they were introduced... I have seen too much info that shows they were alive and well in Pa in the 40s.... I feel with more people moving to rural settings this increased sightings... and if you check the price of fur you'll see you have to really really love trapping... there certainly is not any money in that anymore... and less small game so the yotes have to work harder to get their meals...

I'm not saying that we do not have too many.. we do.. it's just there is not a good way to reduce their population at this time..

just think you can hunt them 24/7 and AT NIGHT...  but just how many guys do you know that hunt them...

Our local sportsman's club is having a COYOTE HUNT in March. I can't wait to see how many guys hunt in our area to try to get rid of some of the yotes...

I hate to get on my soap box again but I wanted to add this....

In order for small game, deer, song birds, and yes even coyotes to survive they have to have the basic three things,, food , water, shelter...

all three make up their habitat.

Pa in general has destroyed much of the habitat and much has also changed with pollution, developments, highways, and different farming methods as well as less farms in general.... even our local water (Think trout streams) has changed because of farming...

I disagrree with S-10 (no surprise there)  

I doubt Pa could ever get to a point where natural predation could, would, or should control populations of wildlife.. there will always be a need for hunting ....

IN THE SENSE OF PEOPLE CONTROL ANIMAL POPULATIONS....

now it may end up not being what we call hunting now...

Ken is right too... govt is trying to step in, as the letter states.. and I have been saying for a couple years now....

If the PGC folds and the govt get to make decision about SGL and state forest... you can kiss the current methods of hunting good bye...  

the general (non-hunting) public  will control animal populations (if tolerated by them at all) and wildlife will be controlled for their enjoyment.. not based on science or anything . just how much the non-hunters want to see or tolerate....

Wow!
I gotta admit I am really surprised at these myths still finding believers! That is amazing in light being of “all the proof” to show the foolishness in them.
Coyotes have been on record at least since the 1940’s in Pennsylvania. (Reference old Game News pictures)
I personally knew of coyotes in the late 1950’s or maybe early 1960 when our home town barber killed one in Potter County.
My own first actually sighting of a coyotes was in the early 1980’s in --- Lancaster County of all places!
A neighbor killed one in 1980 and I killed one in the mid 1980’s --- almost 30 and 25 years ago.
“Wild” cougars are not here period. “All the sightings do not equal “all the sightings” recorded of alien spacecrafts or big foot.

I’ve killed 5 coyotes to date on this property and the turkey population certainly has not been hurt. Ain’t got no problem with squirrels here either.
As for other small game populations ---- what the heck do you think the protection of all raptors has to do with that?
It used to be we killed every hawk and owl we saw and now they are federally protected.
Also, how about tapping? Trapping used to keep rabbit, grouse, turkey and pheasant nest predators like coons, skunks and fox in check.
Heck there was even bounties on foxes back in the day.
And of course there “is” the habitat situation.

Yes, fishers “were” re-introduced. That is common knowledge.

There’s no Boogie Man that I can see, just known situations that any concerned sportsman should be aware of and willing to face.

Forget the coyotes and look around the country
1.Do you deny the wolves that have been introduced at the insistence of the enviromentalists are starting to deciminate prey populations in parts of the west and Alaska?
2.Do you deny that the DCNR secretary threatened to try to get wolves introduced on the state forests if something wasn't done to reduce the deer? He is on record in the newspapers saying just that a few years ago.
3.Do you deny that there was a stink raised when a DCNR representive said that hunting wasn't going to be a legimite activity on the state forests.That statement was quickly backed off when it became a political problem.
4.Did you research the FSC back far enough to know it was started in about 1990 by a group of enviromentalists, and hunan rights activists and came out of a national Earth Summit in Rio?
5.Did you research enough to know Greenpeace was a founding member?
6.Did you research enough to know that Michael Leahy of Defenders of Wildlife was on the board of directors when Sec Debarnitis ?sp made his wolfe comments.
7.Do you know the Defenders of Wildlife advertise themselves as leading the efforts to restore wolves to their former habitats in the lower 48?
8.Research the percentage of forests they have put off limits to logging and the percent that has restrictions on logging and tell me how the deer herd is going to be allowed to increase.
9. Before you accuse me of anything do some extensive research and not just read what they claim to be.
10. As with any enviromental group, some of their objectives and members are to be supported but learn to read the fine print. Most of these folks look upon hunters as either a necessary evil or as someone to be eliminated.
11.Do you believe that Fishers only feed on porkeys
12.Do you deny that any prey population can be reduced to the point where hunting or a severe weather situation could push them over the edge.
13.Do you deny that the deer herd has more pressure on it with the 20,000 bears and countless thousands of coyotes after being significently reduced by hunting since 2002.
14.You may have your little posted hunting property with a over abundent deer population at the present but not all Penns woods is that way and there are many groups with deep pockets that are working in a multitude of ways to eliminate you as a hunter.

I think you are right on, S-10

He was reelected to a 3 year term in 2005.

FSC-US Holds Election for Board of Directors
One New Director Elected, Three Incumbents Remain on Board
Type: Newsletter Article

Keyword: Board of Directors




 
 

 
Michael Leahy


In June, FSC-US held its annual election for the Board of Directors. The Director’s whose terms were expiring were Paul Harlan (Economic Chamber), Barbara Bramble (Environmental Chamber), and Joshua Dickinson (Social Chamber). All were re-elected for a second term of 3 years.

An additional seat was available for one year in the Environmental Chamber. This position was filled with the election of a new Director, Michael Leahy. Leahy is Natural Resources Counsel for Defenders of Wildlife, based in Washington, D.C.

lol. I like these discussions, but I have to disagree with you Ken and s-10. That's all I can say. Like Doc said, nothing will change your opinions.

Some facts to the contrary might. Better hurry though because I have been challenged and will spend a bit of time looking up my own supporting facts.

They call themselves Defenders of Wildlife I wonder which ones?


America's wolves need our help!

America's wolves were nearly eradicated in the 20th century. Now, after a remarkable recovery in parts of the country, wolves are once more in grave peril.

In Greater Yellowstone and the Northern Rockies… the outgoing Bush/Cheney Administration has pushed to again eliminate vital federal protections despite a Summer 2008 court victory by Defenders of Wildlife and other conservation groups that restored safeguards for wolves in Greater Yellowstone and the Northern Rockies. More than 245 wolves in the region were killed between the time when these protections were eliminated and when a federal court shelved the Bush/Cheney Administrations earlier wolf proposal.

If the outgoing Bush/Cheney Administration succeeds, more than 1000 wolves could be shot and trapped—killing two-thirds of all wolves in Greater Yellowstone and the Northern Rockies.


In Alaska… Governor Sarah Palin is championing a wolf-killing frenzy. Easy targets against fallen snow, wolves can be gunned down from airplanes or chased to exhaustion, then shot at point blank range.

More than 800 wolves have been killed by aerial gunning over the past 4 winters, and Governor Palin is pushing to kill even more wolves this year using aerial gunning and other controversial methods. In summer 2008, out-of-control state officials even executed wolf pups, and the state’s Board of Game recently approved the use of denning, the practice of targeting wolves and their young around their dens.


In the Southwest… misinformation and anti-wolf sentiment runs high, with the few remaining wolves in Arizona and New Mexico at risk of extinction.
Defenders of Wildlife continues the fight to promote common sense wolf management, working with federal and state officials and private land-owners to ensure that science, not politics, guides decision-making about the future of these American icons.




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