http://www2.theclarionnews.com/Opinions/77453.shtml

    Somebody else followed the trail of bread crumbs. Now, where did I put that tinfoil hat.

I say #### the deer! fill in the blank yourself!  

--Last edited by Flyfisher on 2009-03-13 14:24:27 --

Yep--And when they are done with hunting guess who's sport they will be after next. Actually they have already started. Do you have any school age children?

PETA to protest killing, eating fish


By John Ramsey
Staff writer
ADVERTISEMENT


This PETA Web site offers information on its ‘Sea Kittens’ campaign.
Last month, it was breast milk ice cream. Before that, it was women wearing lettuce — if anything at all.

The latest campaign from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals is a more G-rated effort to save “Sea Kittens” — better known as fish. And it’s heading to a Fayetteville elementary school.

The group known for using nudity to meld protests with publicity stunts will rail against fish sticks and pet goldfish during a demonstration today outside Margaret Willis Elementary School. Someone from PETA will be dressed like a giant fish just off the school property.

PETA says its campaign is to get people to refer to fish as “Sea Kittens.” That way, people would be less likely to “violently kill them for food, painfully hook them for ‘sport,’ or cruelly confine them to aquariums,” the group says in a news release.

Margaret Willis is only the second in the country to be visited by the giant fish — er, Sea Kitten. PETA thinks children will respond better to the message, PETA spokeswoman Ashley Byrne said.

“Most kind people would never dream of abusing a kitten. When people find out that fish really are as intelligent as cats, people are shocked,” Byrne said. “If kids knew that the fish sticks they were eating in their school cafeterias were made of these Sea Kittens, I think they would lose their lunch.”

Yeah I know all about that sea Kitten that is a joke.  They will never get enough steam on that BS PETA is really a radical group they are against pets if you look into there beliefs and what they stand for.

I am just sick of the crying about the deer herd.  Its not all about getting your deer.  PA hunters act like the have to kill a deer.  Its hunting not killing.  That article is crap.

Flyfisher wrote=But Fingerlings would really improve a lot of streams if they were stocked more.

I see, "screw" the deer and deer hunters, just give me more fish to catch. Who is being greedy now.  

--Last edited by Dr Trout on 2009-03-13 19:32:05 --

Oops, sorry Doc

Can anyone even find a link with information about John Eveland?

I have been a round for a long time and I don’t think I have ever even heard of him. I tried researching him on the internet and all I can find is some stuff on one who is a photographer in, I think it was the state of Indiana and some pay reports from Rand.

I wonder if this guy is really what Street made him out to be since I don’t seem to have anything credited to his name.

Dick Bodenhorn

He appears to be legit; type in his name and penn state

ABOUT THE ARTIST

John Eveland is both a photographer and ecologist, and as such has blended a profession of art and science. He is an author and popular lecturer, and has been the focus of several major film and television programs and newspaper magazine-section documentaries, including a PBS television documentary on his life as a scientist, artist, and visionary.


As a Scientist
John is a multi disciplined scientist educated in the biological and earth sciences, and is versed in the areas of fossil and alternative fuels, energy development, physics, air and space science, and anthropology and paleontology. He has served on the faculty of Penn State University and as a senior scientist and manager with Westinghouse Electric Corporation before developing his own research, education, and art companies.

As a biologist at Penn State, John conducted the first statewide scientific bear research program ever to be conducted in Pennsylvania. He wrote the state’s first bear management plan, which still remains in effect. The plan included: (1) the closing of the state wide bear hunting season in the early 1970's; (2) permanently reducing the length of the bear hunting season from 1 week to 1 - 3 days only; (3) maintaining the hunting season in the beginning of the week of Thanksgiving; (4) requiring the issuance of permits to bear hunters (5) creating statewide bear management zones; (6) developing aging techniques for bears, including the laboratory method for annular-sectioning of teeth and the extraction of premolar teeth for this purpose; (7) creating a system of statewide bear season check stations.   As a result, the state’s bear population has grown from less than 2,000 bears in the 1970's to a current high of over 11,000. Today Pennsylvania prides itself in having one of the nation's most flourishing black bear populations as a result of John's research and management plan, which was fully in place and in operation when John left the bear project to conduct the state's first research on Pennsylvania's elk herd.

Therefore In addition, he conducted the first scientific investigations of Pennsylvania’s elk herd, discovering the nationally-significant brainworm disease relationship in the herd, and writing the state’s first elk management plan -- seeing the herd increase from a low of only 35 elk to a current high of over 600. Recently John designed a 600 square mile four-county Eastern Elk Heritage Park in the north central Pennsylvania area that is occupied by the herd. The Park will feature a 600 acre visitor center including exhibits,  gift shop, and cafeteria, education and science institute for wildlife research and for environmental education of families and school children; lodge, cabins, and campground facilities; elk recovery compound; elk driving tours and hiking trails and vistas for observing elk throughout the four-county area. (For more information visit the Terra Cor Connection link).

At Westinghouse, John conducted and directed scientific research on ecology, environmental systems, and energy development throughout North America -- from the northern hardwood forests and rocky coasts of New England to the pine forests of the Carolinas and Louisiana; and from southwest deserts and Rocky Mountains to the boreal forests of Canada and Alaska. John headed the environmental studies on some of America’s largest energy development projects such as fossil fuel, nuclear, geothermal, and solar power generating stations; coal and uranium mines; energy transport systems; and the long-term impacts (biological, air, water, and soil) of fossil fuel emissions. He is a specialist on endangered species and critical habitats throughout North America.

John has conducted studies on energy and the environment in 31 states and provinces, was asked to serve on the energy and environment council in Pennsylvania for a former state governor, and served on the state wildlife planning council. John is considered to be one of America's leading scientists regarding our natural environment, ecology, wildlife biology, and the relationships of energy and the environment.

As an Artist
John's photographs of American wildlife, wilderness, heritage, and the sea have been presented in over 500 exhibits and invitational showings throughout the country, and continue to be distributed worldwide for commercial and residential appreciation and artistic collection. He has been honored with over 40 regional and national awards for his depiction of wild America, and has been the feature of many newspaper and magazine articles, radio interviews and television specials. Although John is most widely acknowledged for his wildlife and wilderness work, his sensitivity for the American heritage and love of the sea are rapidly gaining him acclaim not only as an accomplished photographer, but as a fine artist. His work is currently presented in four collections: wildlife, wilderness, heritage, and the sea. Today, John’s photographs are displayed in thousands of homes, corporate and government offices, and institutions throughout North America, and are represented throughout the world in South America, Europe, Asia, and Australia.

We must also take into consideration who wrote this piece... and his bias ...  

No doubt when you write your own Bio you may dress it up a bit. You should read the one on Gary Alts website. However, there is at least some truth to what he claims. Go on the Pennsylvania Game Commissions own website, type his name in the search option on the left and his name comes up in both the Bear Plan, and Elk Plan. In both cases his research papers are contained in the credits at the bottom of the plans.

I don’t know maybe he is qualified. But, it appears that it has been about thirty years or so since he had any involvement in wildlife management or research and is really mostly a photographer in recent times. I have to question why he dropped out of the wildlife research field and what qualifications he has now.

Thirty years of being out of the research field would be about like going to a Doctor that has been practicing or staying current on new procedures of medicines for thirty years. I would need to see a lot more about those qualifications.

Dick Bodenhorn

S-10 I sent you a PM that message is bull.  I just hate guys that are like you are only think deer.  There is a lot more to the environment than deer.  Pulling some old post about fish out is really stretching it and only an attack at me. I will keep what i  think of your crap to myslef from know on. I really have no time for your idea that the world is out to get you crap.   I suggest you get out in the woods and enjoy it instead of reading crap and presenting BS on message boards.  I am done sorry doc with guys like S-10 on this board I am not going to be posting any more of my fishing reports or anything to that nature it may show me as wanting my cake and eating it to.  

Just wake up it is not all about deer and with how bad the economy is in NW PA if the Wilds program brings a few jobs good. I just read where Elk County has an unemployment rate of 11% that is a lot of people that would take any job they could.  If the wilds means a few jobs at the expense of Jim Bob and Jethro's deer so what they will live.  

Flyfisher wrote--  Posted 13/03/2009 02:24:04 PM        
I say #### the deer! fill in the blank yourself!          

I think the above statement says it all. Your passion is fishing pelletheads and that is all you care about. My passion is deer hunting with fishing a not so close second. I thought we agreed to respectively disagree but guess I was wrong. So now because you don't like what I post instead of ignoring or not reading them you are going to take your ball and go home. It sure does make you look greedy and small IMO. Why should Doc and others suffer just because we don't agree. Take a few days and calm down and think about what you just posted.

My argument is simply there is more to the environment and wildlife than deer.  I am just sick with not you  but the group of hunters you represent that are all about deer.  Their are many other animals, birds, Fish, and even plants that need to be protected and enjoyed as well.  You refuse to ever respond to the fact that wildlife is more than just deer you attack me and seem to think all i care about if fish.  Nothing could be further form the truth.  I have a degree in Environmental Science and i know and understand the environment more than your average Joe.  I say the hell with deer because the amount of money and time that is spent on the deer herd could be used for far better purposes.  I hunt deer but it is not my passion fishing and Trapping are my passions.  We spend all this time an effort on deer for what really.  So guys can go to camp and get drunk and shoot there deer.  They complain about the lack of deer but they are the same guys that killed 3 deer a year there with bonus tags and such for how many years.  What do you expect oh that's right blame the coyotes they must be the result.  No its the hunters that over harvested their hunting grounds years ago. I am by know means greedy I am just sick of all the money that is spent on the deer herd. You will never get it because in your mind deer is all that matters you are the type that refuses to look at the entire picture.  Guys like you don't look at the over all picture and unlike what you may think about me I do look at the entire picture.  You are the idiot that pulled fishing out of one of my post and keeps bringing it up that shows you being small as you say it.  You refuse to admit that there is more to it than managing for deer.  That shows you as being just as greedy and small as me if you feel that way. And honestly I feel you will never get it simply because you are too concerned with deer.  I may have been a little over the top with my blank the deer post but I pissed you off so it worked for me.

break time....

I don't want to lose any members... we all have opinions and the right to express them... and we must agree on the old saying.."different strokes for different folks"

I'm able to (like many) I'm not to quick to change my opinions.. but by having mature debates with supporting facts to each side.. guys that visit and read this board can then make their own decisions on which side they prefer..


I will say I agree with mike on the it's not all about deer.... but I also realize there are more guys worried about deer than "the big picture"... but by presenting the "big picture" some undecided folks may wish to start to see the big picture...

RSB could tell you how anti-deer plan I was just 8 short years ago.... but as I learned I began to see the  big picture about WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT in PA..

and as for the PGC there will always be those opposed to them no matter what decisions they make...

as for the Pa wilds... I still think there are "hidden agendas" hidden in there and have friends that feel the same way... especially when it comes to losing our SGL to DCNR.....

flyfisher wrote== I say the hell with deer because the amount of money and time that is spent on deer herd could be used for far better purposes.

I doubt that, without the deer the PGC would cease to exist but then maybe you think that is a good thing. As for the area needing an economic boost they didn't need one before the hunters started closing up shop and going somewhere else. This is what Penn State's Penna Impact has to say about why deer are important to the state. Do you know any single outdoor activity that generates as much money for the state.

(Penn State Deer Research Guiding Wildlife Managers
Hunting is vital to Pennsylvania’s economy, with an economic impact of $4.8 billion annually, according to the Center for Rural Pennsylvania. Much of that comes from white-tailed deer hunting, which is the favorite pursuit of many of the state’s sports enthusiasts.)

As far as pulling your posts up, I did it to prove that you are only interested in fishing and could care less about deer or deer hunting. I could pull up a lot more to show where your only interest in spending state money lies but your computer name really says it all.
As far as hunters being to blame for killing all the deer, the reason the PGC was established in the first place was to prevent that from happening, not to promote it. Have a nice day.

Whatever s-10 you have no clue what I am all about. You are assuming way to much by my screen name and you must have something againist fishermen of fly fishermen.  

You refuse to actually reply to my major point it is not just about deer.  It is about all wildlife and the overall environment. That is my issue you can argue till you turn blue in the face but until you open your eyes and see that the PGC is protecting all wildlife not just deer.  

That is why i say the blank with deer there is a lot more to the the health of the forest and wildlife than just deer.  

You defend the PGC holy crap did i just see that.  

Oh yeah you can put your have a nice day you know where.

You keep claiming it's about the overall health of the habitat but your posts are all centered around what is good for you and your fishing. Remember this post of yours on old growth forest, there are several more on this site I can pull up to prove my point.

Flyfisher wrote= As a avid fly fisherman i really support this idea of forest growth it helps with giving us colder and cleaner water.

Nothing against fly fishing, My dad wasn't much of a deer hunter but he was hell on trout and had me fishing dries with split bamboo when I was eight and had a basket of broken tips to prove it. I will use whatever is hot at the moment including worms and minnows just as you will you when trout fishing.

If you do some research instead of calling me names you would find that the damage done by deer doesn't begin to compare to the economic benefit they have to the state. It's not all about the deer as you try to twist my words to mean but neither is it all about your pelletheads or the Audubons birds. Hell, they won't even let you deer hunt on their properties but want them dead everywhere else. Another small, self centered group trying to get their hooks into the gamelands.

If you hate deer so much why do you allow yourself to get all worked up debating the topic? It's plenty easy to just skip over the subject and concentrate on the ones you like. Have a nice day anyway.

I am simply reply because I think you are full of crap.  

Now you put me an avid trapper with the Audubon society are you for real.  PETA and Audubon are two organizations that I see as radical you idiot.  I don't hate deer I hate guys like you that don't look at other wildlife and only get concerned with deer you are missing out on what wildlife managment is.  managing all wildlife!!!!!