I have nothing against semi-automatics.. to fire you have to keep pulling the trigger....

then no matter what happens the shooter knew he was pulling the trigger...

hold a trigger back and the gun keeps firing.... nope see NO need for those .... except for miltary use ( battles/war)

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Dr Trout wrote : 16 to 20 rounds fired..... Nah... I'll take my 12 gauge one shot and the guy is not going to be still moving towards me... no need for more than one shot... period

Hopefully never need that many but it nice to have it.  Have at it with that 12 guage.  Everyone should use what they are comfortable with.

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Dr Trout wrote : hold a trigger back and the gun keeps firing.... nope see NO need for those .... except for miltary use ( battles/war)

I would agree. See I can be flexible.

Anyway, back to that picture.  Come on, that is no more in poor taste then the daily eye candy.  That would actually be a cool avatar for awhile.

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Buff wrote : dpms, I like you're avaitar.

Thanks Buff, I was starting to get an inferiority complex...

I have a fair amount of both training and experience with a pretty good number of weapons used for everything from military  combat, personal and pubic protection to hunting. All of the weapons I have trained with and used are very versatile in their use and could be used in many types of hunting or combat situations.

But, the real point is that gun owners are not helping their cause, or their future, when they use that in your face approach toward winning the battle of staying a step ahead of the anti’s. Just like hunting it isn’t the pros or the antis that will rule the day or win the war. What will be the deciding factor is how many that are on the fence can be swayed to one side or the other. All too often the hunters and the gun owners are their own worst enemy by helping to create people that oppose their views. They frequently do that just by being an in your face knot head.

This past vote was 5 to 4. All it will take is for some well intended, but in your face gun owner doing one thing that convinces just one of those five Supreme Court Justice and the next vote can go the direction we don’t want it to go. It almost happened this time.

As both gun owners and people that have put our lives on the line to defend all of our Constitutional rights and citizens we have to use our heads toward showing how response we as gun owners really are. Sending up challenges to the anti’s or to one another is not the way to prove how responsible gun owners are.

Dick Bodenhorn  

--Last edited by RSB on 2008-06-27 23:03:24 --

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RSB wrote : As both gun owners and people that have put our lives on the line to defend all of our Constitutional rights and citizens we have to use our heads toward showing how response we as gun owners really are. Sending up challenges to the anti’s or to one another is not the way to prove how responsible gun owners are. Dick Bodenhorn

Which is why we as gun owners need to support our rights which is the right to keep and bear arms.  There are enough gun laws on the books now that are a good compromise for all.

A gun owner that wants to keep thier guns and be able to buy a gun for whatever purpose has that right and others that support that right should not question someones intentions or weapon of choice.

Support the right and there should be no infighting among ourselves.

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RSB wrote : All too often the hunters and the gun owners are their own worst enemy by helping to create people that oppose their views. They frequently do that just by being an in your face knot head.   Dick Bodenhorn

The same can be said of hunters and gun owners who are not educated enough on the current firearms laws and firearms themselves that throw thier support behind "sensible" or "common sense" laws that take away our rights to defend ourselves and hunt with the weapon we choose.

If the antis see a segment of the gun owner population that is willing to move farther left they will pounce.  And they are.

Discussions like these reveal our weaknesses and the need to unite behind a common cause.  

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Penn wrote : I recently read an article that the soldiers in Iraq are not happy with the M-16 as the bullets are too small and travel through the body. They also do not have impact shock which leaves the person shot the ability to react to being shot which most likely means shooting back at you.

You are correct about that.  Some special forces are allowed to use expanding frangible projectiles which solves alot of the issues with lack of knockdown power and overpenetration.  Many of the in the trench guys are handicapped by penetrator projectiles that have minimum knockdown power.

The handicap is the projectile of choice, not the firearm.
Also the military is considering the 6.8 SPC round for the M-16 which has considerable more knockdown power and some hunters are using it for deer already in civilain AR-15's.  

--Last edited by dpms on 2008-06-28 10:27:28 --

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Penn wrote :  My recollection of the M16 was that it had a switch that was safe-semi-auto on the side of the weapon. Is this similar on the AR-15? How hard would it be for a knowledgeable armorer to convert the AR-15 to auto?

You are correct, but many police agencies and law enforcement are going to three shot burst or semi-automatic.  Full auto is a rarity except in the military and full auto use is decreasing as semi-automatic and three shot burst are more precise.

It is relatively easy to convert a civilian AR-15 to fully automatic with a little knowledge but trying to aquire the parts to do so without the proper license is one sure way to find yourself in the slammer with felony charges.  

A person without a criminal record can apply for a special license to own fully automatic weapons but it requires an extensive background check, fingerprinting and lots of money to do so.

Come on Penn, the ones you can purchase at the gun shop are SEMIs. Not autos, they are illegal. Do your homework.

Penn,

Here is the next generation sniper rifle the military is evaluating.  Believe me, you do not want to be in the crosshairs at 1000 yards.  Pretty much that M-16 souped up a little.  A much different gun than the old M-16 that you refer too.

 

--Last edited by dpms on 2008-06-29 08:47:24 --

My mistake Penn.

Here is a good representation of some AR-15 with different uses in mind.  From a short tactical carbine to a mid range to long range sniper.

Here is a Armalite AR-15 based hunting rfile chambered in .338 federal.  Used for deer, elk, hogs, bear and moose in states where semi-auto is legal.

This rifle operate no differently than the semi-auto Winchester and Browning big game rifles that are popular in other states.  The only differnce is appearance.  Those not familiar with firearms may get a negative impression looking at this rifle but it functions no different than other hunting rifles.

That is the importance of educating others on firearms and firearm laws.



Here is the Browning semi-auto rifle.  Most would assume the difference between the two is alot but such is not the case.

 

--Last edited by dpms on 2008-06-29 11:20:27 --

Penn,

Here is the green tip penetrator ammo that our military is currently using.  Steel tip designed for penetration not expansion.



Here is the Hornady TAP personal defense ammo that expands rapidly to not overpenetrate.