Public Land Habitat, Deer Breeding Ecology, Hunter Satisfaction and Relationship with agencies responsible for the Stewardship of our Public Lands.

In 2001 sweeping changes occurred in Pennsylvania deer hunting i.e. Herd Reduction and Antler Restrictions (AR).  Most everyone who is a deer hunter will agree that the deer herd has been reduced significantly and that habitat regeneration is occurring to varying degrees across the public lands of Pennsylvania.

To further facilitate habitat regeneration, deer breeding ecology and help reduce the stress of winter on our deer herd:
- Doe season should be prior to the rut (First full week of November) and eliminate that last week of the November Archery season which generally occurs during some portion of the rut.
- Reducing the doe herd prior to the rut improves the buck to doe ratio for breeding purposes.
- Resulting in a higher percentage of doe being bred during their first estrus.
- Reduces the numbers of late born fawns the next spring and late fall estrus cycles, which   continues to perpetuate late born fawns and late fall estrus cycles.
- Prevents removing in mass those genes that the breeder buck just worked hard to perpetuate, as we are with the concurrent doe and buck season today.
- Reducing the doe herd prior to the rut would also improve the winter food supply by having about three more weeks available to help carry the remaining deer through a severe winter. See table below for potential winter food supply if 200,000 doe were harvested and there were 21 days between the end of doe season and the beginning of buck season.

Doe harvested:  200,000
Diff. in days (current – proposed season):  21

Min Avg Max
Lbs. of food per deer, per day 3 5 7
Lbs. of food all deer, all days (21) 12,600,000 21,000,000 29,400,00
Tons of food all deer, all days (21) 6,300 10,500 14,700

Note: A filled gallon bag equals approximately one pound of deer browse.

Eliminate AR all together. If a hunter wants to shoot a spike that is the hunter’s choice. If the hunter wants to wait for the buck of a life time again that is the hunter’s choice.  This would eliminate the potential for high grading under the current AR program.

These changes are not recommended for the Special Regulations Areas and all other seasons stay intact.

The changes above are possible solutions to: continue to improve the public land habitat, improve deer breeding ecology, improve hunter satisfaction and improve the relationship between the hunter and those agencies responsible for managing these resources. Remember to think about and look at the bigger picture, what is best for all, and not just you as an individual or special interest group!!

Observer ??

Where did  that come from... is it your own creation ???

High grading: It is difficult (if not impossible)at best to alter the gene pool of a wild, free ranging herd.  Look at the ranches in texas that are micromanaged for big deer.  They still cull inferior bucks all the time. If they cannot alter the gene pool to a significant degree there, we surely are not going too in the state of Pa.

Special regulations: Why not do as you suggest in the special regulation areas as well?  

With that being said, your ideas or those that you posted do have alot of merit, but implementing in this state would be a huge uphill battle.

I still believe in some form of antlered deer restrictions.  Either AR's, shorter season, earn a buck in selected units etc....

I think that earn a buck would be the way to go in the SRA's to drop the antlerless herd a little.  Alot of trophy hunters in the SRA's that never shoot does.

Anyway, as doc said, your thoughts or someone else's.

I agree with dpms about the high grading... I think that is just something those opposed to the current deer plan use as an excuse to do away with the program..
I do not think they fully understand the idea of a balanced herd nor the idea of getting an age variance in the buck population.

A good spring and winter food supply is EVERY BIT as important as any genes in getting bucks to produce larger antlers.
And that has been proven over and over again in managed areas with studies..

I was in favor of an early fall doe season when I talked to Dr. Alt way back in 2000..my only concerns were with the safety factor.. because of all the leaves still on the trees and folks shooting high power rifles when they have limited visability.

My other concern was with the meat processors and the warmer weather...many do not have large COLD storage units for all those antlerless deer coming in during the warmer fall weather.

The idea of harvesting does before they are bred is a good idea and has proven to be just that in other states that have an earlier antlerless season.

Pa is unique because of the large number of hunters that pursue deer.  Meat storage and safety would be a big concern with a early doe season in this state.

Also, many states have some form of firearm season during a part of the main rut.  The hunter numbers are much lower though and probably do not influence the actual breeding process.  Imagine 900,000 people stomping around the woods shooting at deer during the peak of the rut, some does mat not get bred during thier first estrous because of the pressure and we are back to where we started at. Just something to consider.

EXCELLENT POINT dpms....

and one I had not considered...

All,

These suggestions and subsequent comments are my own thoughts entirely, with the exception of how much a deer eats.

I appreciate all of your comments.

If other states can implement and integrate portions of what is suggested then I think we should be able to do it also.. An additional reason for separating the doe season from the buck season would be to reduce the numbers of hunters in the woods at one time. It is my opinion that if we had a state wide early doe season probably 40 percent of those hunters that were successful would not bother to buck hunt because they are strictly meat hunting (not that is a bad thing). Hunters in the southern states manage to successfully handle their deer and minimize spoilage, certaily we could do it to.

Re 900,000 people stomping around. Under no circumstances do I think we should be deer hunting during the rut. That is the reason for the early doe season and the elimination of the last week of the November Archery season. Let the remaining doe be bred without interference from the hunters.

Not to minimize anything related to safety, but, I would suggest that if we can identify our targets during the early inline muzzle loader season then we can do it during an early doe season.

Special Regulation areas, just wanted to leave something intact for those areas where the deer really need to be thinned out.

HighGrading. It certainly sees to me that if you are harvesting some of the dominate breeder bucks during the last week of the early archery season combined with antler restrictions you are forcing a process on the deer herd that is not natural.

I do tend to support your comment about those filling thier doe tags in an "early season" not hunting the regular buck season. I don't think it would be 40% though. I think that most would still give it a shot on the first day or maybe a Saturday but overall the pressure would be less on the bucks.  

Also the season would have to be in late October and not part of November to not disturb the rut too much if we are to believe that hunting pressure would disrupt the rut to some degree.  Foliage would still be thick in many parts of the state.  I don't like that fact with the hunting pressure we have.

It is true that many of the biggest bucks are most vulnerable doing our last week of archery but I am not sure the actual number that is harvested is significant enough to matter in the total antlered harvest.

I would love it if antler restrictions were not necessary but, in this state, it is the best way to move more bucks into an older age class without drastic changes.  You could shorten the season to three days like many other states. Implement weapon restrictions like shotgun only, statewide. Or make hunters apply for a limited number of buck tags much like we apply for antlerless tags now. Earn a buck etc... Not sure how that would go over.  Like a lead balloon probably.

It is a nice discussion with some interesting points.

DPMS I agree with your antler restrictions be lifted. Yes I am seeing bigger rack deer, but I am still seeing two deer every year that are older deer with 10" spikes that want to mature more but don't. I know there the same deer because they travel together and one has a limp. If they are breeding could this defect on his antlers be passed on? I don't know.

To me, an old deer is a trophy.  Regardless of antler size.  We just don't have that many old deer in this state.  Body size turns me on as much as larger horns.  A 4 y/o buck would be a nice trophy even if it had 10 inch spikes and you should be able to harvest him in an ideal world.  But, as I said previously, Pa is not an ideal world the way the hunter demographics are and seasons currently set.

There are many ways to improve the age structure of the antlered herd as I said previously. But, I believe, the current AR's are the best fit for this state at the present time.