NOPE ----- I have not heard at thing yet.....  can't figure why it's so late this year ??????

Probably down quite a bit because of the weather and lack of hunters from previous AR/HR years...

Should get it this week though ??????

GAME COMMISSION RELEASES 2007-08 DEER HARVEST ESTIMATES
HARRISBURG - The Pennsylvania Game Commission today reported that hunters harvested an estimated 323,070 deer in the state's 2007-08 seasons. That's down 11 percent from the previous seasons' harvest.
Hunters took 109,200 antlered deer in the 2007-08 seasons, down 19 percent from the previous license year's harvest of 135,290. Also, hunters harvested 213,870 antlerless deer in 2007-08, a five percent drop from the 226,270 antlerless deer taken in 2006-07.
"What stands out most when looking over the harvest data is the difference in the opening day deer kill of the two-week firearms season," said Dr. Christopher Rosenberry, Game Commission Deer Section Supervisor. "Report cards sent in by hunters show the antlered deer harvest on the opening day, Nov. 26, dropped more than 50 percent from 2006. Daily harvests for the rest of the two-week season, Nov. 27-Dec. 8, were similar to 2006.
"The firearms season's opening day antlerless deer harvest also dropped nearly 50 percent from 2006. However, the antlerless harvest throughout the remainder of the two-week season increased and, in due course, erased some of the opening day's harvest shortfall."
Based on past year's results, Rosenberry noted that it wasn't surprising that the drop in opening day harvests had a larger effect on the antlered harvest than the antlerless harvest.
"Historically, a majority of the antlered deer harvest occurs on opening day, whereas the antlerless harvest is typically more evenly distributed across the entire two weeks," Rosenberry said.
Bureau of Wildlife Management personnel currently are working to develop antlerless deer license allocation recommendations for the April Board meeting. Calvin W. DuBrock, Game Commission Bureau of Wildlife Management director, said that in addition to harvest data, the staff will be looking at population trend data, deer reproduction data, forest regeneration data, input from five new Citizen Advisory Committees, and hunter survey results.
Harvest estimates for 2007-08 seasons are based on 124,569 usable harvest report cards (40,482 antlered; 84,087 antlerless) returned by hunters to the Commission and 25,400 deer (7,338 antlered; 18,062 antlerless) examined by Game Commission personnel in the field and at processors.
For an explanation of the agency's deer harvest estimating procedure, visit the Game Commission's website (www.pgc.state.pa.us), click on "Deer Program" in the "Quick Clicks" box in the right-hand corner of the homepage, then scroll down and select "Deer Harvest Estimates" brochure. To view a peer-reviewed article published in the Journal of Wildlife Management (2004) about the agency's deer harvest estimating procedure, go the "Deer Program" section, scroll down and choose "Communication, Education and Outreach to Citizens," and then select "Reporting rate variability and precision of white-tailed deer harvest estimates in Pennsylvania" in the "Science Publications" listing.
Yearling bucks comprised 56 percent of the 2007-08 antlered harvest, which is the same percentage posted in 2006-07. Button bucks and doe fawns were 24 percent and 20 percent, respectively, of the antlerless harvest, and almost identical to 2006-07 season rates.
Total deer harvest estimates by WMU for 2007-08 (with 2006-07 figures in parentheses) are as follows:
WMU 1A: 4,900 (5,800) antlered, 12,500 (13,200) antlerless;
WMU 1B: 6,000 (6,800) antlered, 11,400 (12,000) antlerless;
WMU 2A: 6,600 (8,100) antlered, 14,300 (17,000) antlerless;
WMU 2B: 4,400 (5,800) antlered, 15,300 (16,500) antlerless;
WMU 2C: 8,400 (9,000) antlered, 11,600 (12,100) antlerless;
WMU 2D: 9,100 (10,900) antlered, 18,100 (20,400) antlerless;
WMU 2E: 3,600 (5,400) antlered, 6,400 (7,400) antlerless;
WMU 2F: 4,800 (7,200) antlered, 7,100 (8,000) antlerless;
WMU 2G: 5,100 (7,200) antlered, 6,600 (4,600) antlerless;
WMU 3A: 3,400 (4,500) antlered, 7,800 (8,800) antlerless;
WMU 3B: 5,900 (6,500) antlered, 10,200 (10,600) antlerless;
WMU 3C: 5,300 (6,700) antlered, 9,600 (9,200) antlerless;
WMU 3D: 3,600 (5,000) antlered, 7,000 (7,400) antlerless;
WMU 4A: 4,500 (5,900) antlered, 6,700 (7,800) antlerless;
WMU 4B: 3,500 (5,000) antlered, 4,500 (6,600) antlerless;
WMU 4C: 4,800 (6,100) antlered, 9,400 (8,900) antlerless;
WMU 4D: 5,800 (6,800) antlered, 8,100 (9,900) antlerless;
WMU 4E: 3,300 (4,100) antlered, 8,100 (9,000) antlerless;
WMU 5A: 2,400 (2,200) antlered, 3,900 (5,200) antlerless;
WMU 5B: 6,000 (7,000) antlered, 11,100 (11,400) antlerless;
WMU 5C: 6,500 (7,700) antlered, 18,900 (16,100) antlerless;
WMU 5D: 1,000 (1,300) antlered, 5,200 (4,100) antlerless; and
Unknown WMU: 300 (290) antlered, 70 (70) antlerless
Season-specific deer harvest estimates - such as archery and muzzleloader and rifle - by WMU for 2007-08 can also be calculated using harvest data from processors and report cards.
"Although we do not use season-specific harvest data for management purposes, we recognize the public is interested in these harvest estimates," DuBrock said. "For that reason only, we provide estimated deer harvest breakdowns for firearms, archery and muzzleloader seasons, but we only use total deer harvest estimates when making management recommendations."
Season-specific deer harvest estimates are as follows:
WMU 1A: firearms, 3,300 antlered, 9,700 antlerless; archery, 1,540 antlered, 1,400 antlerless; and muzzleloader, 60 antlered, 1,400 antlerless;
WMU 1B: firearms, 4,400 antlered, 9,500 antlerless; archery, 1,560 antlered, 1,070 antlerless; muzzleloader, 40 antlered, 830 antlerless;
WMU 2A: firearms, 5,200 antlered, 11,600 antlerless; archery, 1,310 antlered, 1,170 antlerless; muzzleloader, 90 antlered, 1,530 antlerless;
WMU 2B: firearms, 2,000 antlered, 8,900 antlerless; archery, 2,330 antlered, 5,410 antlerless; 70 antlered, 990 antlerless;
WMU 2C: firearms, 6,400 antlered, 9,300 antlerless; archery, 1,900 antlered, 1,050 antlerless; muzzleloader, 100 antlered, 1,250 antlerless;
WMU 2D: firearms, 6,500 antlered, 14,700 antlerless; archery, 2,510 antlered, 1,450 antlerless; muzzleloader, 90 antlered, 1,950 antlerless;
WMU 2E: firearms, 2,900 antlered, 5,400 antlerless; archery, 660 antlered, 420 antlerless; muzzleloader, 40 antlered, 580 antlerless;
WMU 2F: firearms, 3,800 antlered, 5,900 antlerless; archery, 930 antlered, 390 antlerless; muzzleloader, 70 antlered, 810 antlerless;
WMU 2G: firearms, 4,500 antlered, 5,200 antlerless; archery, 560 antlered, 420 antlerless; muzzleloader, 40 antlered, 980 antlerless;
WMU 3A: firearms, 2,900 antlered, 6,300 antlerless; archery, 480 antlered, 600 antlerless; muzzleloader, 20 antlered, 900 antlerless;
WMU 3B: firearms, 4,900 antlered, 7,900 antlerless; archery, 940 antlered, 920 antlerless; muzzleloader, 60 antlered, 1,380 antlerless;
WMU 3C: firearms, 4,500 antlered, 7,800 antlerless; archery, 750 antlered, 700 antlerless; muzzleloader, 50 antlered, 1,100 antlerless;
WMU 3D: firearms, 2,900 antlered, 5,200 antlerless; archery, 660 antlered, 910 antlerless; muzzleloader, 40 antlered, 890 antlerless;
WMU 4A: firearms, 4,000 antlered, 5,500 antlerless; archery, 450 antlered, 430 antlerless; muzzleloader, 50 antlered, 770 antlerless;
WMU 4B: firearms, 2,800 antlered, 3,600 antlerless; archery, 650 antlered, 390 antlerless; muzzleloader, 50 antlered, 510 antlerless;
WMU 4C: firearms, 3,400 antlered, 6,900 antlerless; archery, 1,350 antlered, 1,230 antlerless; muzzleloader, 50 antlered, 1,270 antlerless;
WMU 4D: firearms, 4,900 antlered, 6,500 antlerless; archery, 830 antlered, 710 antlerless; muzzleloader, 70 antlered, 890 antlerless;
WMU 4E: firearms, 2,500 antlered, 6,200 antlerless; archery, 750 antlered, 850 antlerless; muzzleloader, 50 antlered, 1,050 antlerless;
WMU 5A: firearms, 1,900 antlered, 2,700 antlerless; archery, 470 antlered, 560 antlerless; muzzleloader, 30 antlered, 640 antlerless;
WMU 5B: firearms, 3,400 antlered, 7,100 antlerless; archery, 2,510 antlered, 2,600 antlerless; muzzleloader, 90 antlered, 1,400 antlerless;
WMU 5C: firearms, 3,000 antlered, 10,100 antlerless; archery, 3,410 antlered, 7,390 antlerless; muzzleloader, 90 antlered, 1,410 antlerless;
WMU 5D: firearms, 300 antlered, 1,700 antlerless; archery, 680 antlered, 3,400 antlerless; muzzleloader, 20 antlered, 100 antlerless; and
Unknown WMU: firearms, 100 antlered, 60 antlerless; archery, 190 antlered, 0 antlerless; muzzleloader, 10 antlered, 10 antlerless.

Two things jump out at me right off  ----

#1.. we hear of all those whinning hunters from 2G that say there are no deer and we MUST stop shooting does but look at the harvest....

the antlerless harvest went up 2,000 deer over and above last year and that was with reduced tags.....  PROVES there are plenty of deer in 2G and  sure goes to prove to me there are those whinning ..but they say one thing and do another....

#2... the deer hunters are getting NO BETTER AT ALL in IDing button bucks.. still 24%

A 19% decrease in the harvest from 2006, I think that means there has been a 33% decrease in harvest from 2005, without an end in sight. Gee I wonder what the hunters have to complain about.

Let's give the GC more money for less.

Quote :

Dr Trout wrote #2... the deer hunters are getting NO BETTER AT ALL in IDing button bucks.. still 24%

Or, they could care less.  Imagine if the BB harvest was halved, the difference it would make.  One thing this proves is that the majority of hunters in this state have little interest in the changes that require our help.  Too bad for all of us.

I think King is wrong in his figuring

I based that on this ---


comparing just the buck harvest of 2006 to the buck harvest of 2005 here's what I found......

IN WMUS..2A,4E,5A,5B,5D, and the unknown WMU they harvested LESS bucks in 2006 than 2005....

EVERY SINGLE OTHER WMU HAD AN INCREASE IN THE BUCK HARVEST....

Checking all the figures from way back when there have been VERY FEW consecutive years of increased harvest.. so I had already figured with the good buck kill in 2006 that 2007 would go down some... not 19% BUT SOME....

Also notice that the muzzleloader season, as a whole, did better in 2007 than 2006..

tells me the deer were there.. guys just did not find them in rifle season.. ??

All I heard today at work
was people talking about all the deer that

"were out everywhere this afternoon"....

Doc, I also believe hunter don't try not to shoot yearlings... The numbers of yearling in the total population is similar to the % killed ... which means hunters don't care.

On the topic of lots of deer in 2G ... here are the doe harvests for 2G over the last few years ...remember that all data is down from the 1990's and that is down from the 70's ... so here you go :

2003: 20,370
2004: 10,600
2005: 6,200
2006: 4,600
2007: 6,600

So by your definition there are deer everywhere, but the data would suggest there are perhaps 10% of the deer there once were ... I guess it's all about where you look at it from.

Another point ... watch the buck harvest ...does are regulated by permits and as such much more subjective to variables ... lets look at the buck harvest for 2G:...

2003: 10,110
2004: 6,600
2005: 5,000
2006: 7,200 ...comment below
2007: 5,100

7,200 was due to massive 2005 acorn crop which had larger racks than last year in the north central pa area.

From this, I believe the PGC has achieved a stable population .... 5,000 could be a benchmark harvest for bucks in 2G going forward.

2F data trends are very similar with the exception that the kill in does and bucks continues to trend down every year for the last 5 years ...

Year       does       bucks
2003: 17,700      7,450
2004: 13,100      6,400
2005: 8,300        6,000
2006: 8,000        7,200
2007: 7,100        4,800

I am concerned about this as I believe 2F continues the herd reduction efforts in spite of attempts to stablize.

Doc, you are right I wa sat work and thinking one thing and writing something else. I looked at the total harvest in 2003 (464,890) complared to the total harvest for 2007 (323,070) and it reflects a 30% decrease.

I'll try be more careful in the future, but sometimes my fingers don't type what I'm thinking.

Here's what is TOTALLY wrong with the way the PGC is reporting now.... I HATE IT....

It does tell you what is happening in any WMU... but what it does NOT.. when you try to break it down further.... is what is going on in an area of that WMU

I can't tell you because they (PGC) no longer gives me the neccassary figures to compare and do that with...

I will deal with TOTAL deer harvested male and female...

Prior to HR/AR in Jefferson County ----

TOTAL deer harvested per sqaure mile ====

1982-1986 = 10.0
1987-1991 = 12.1
1992-1996 = 13.3
1997-2001 = 13.2
2002-2003 = 15.1

Basically an ever increasing harvest for Jefferson County....

BUT then they stopped supplying those figures after 2003 for counties and the only ones available are for 2F (WMUs)....

Let's take a look at that first..

Jefferson County  (almost always in the top 10 for deer harvest forever) is SPLIT in half... then my half, the upper one, gets added to several parts of other counties ..

ALMOST ALL OF WHICH HAVE ALWAYS had fewer deer harvested per year averages...

So now I know that the harvest for 2F per square mile is lower than Jefferson County's averages have EVER BEEN... (at 7.1 dpsm for 2F)

but that does NOT mean we are not harvesting 12 or 13 dpsm or even MORE in Jefferson County....

Elk County, for example, has almost always had about half the harvest of Jefferson per square mile...

Here's the numbers for 2001 2002, 2003 all under HR/AR for the counties Jefferson is now linked with and share a border to form a WMU ????

2001 ===
Elk - 5,107
Forest - 6,700
Clarion - 7,920

Jefferson - 9,930


2002====
Clarion - 6,288
Elk - 6,592
Forest - 7,007


Jefferson - 11,005

2003 ====
Elk - 5,120
Forest - 5,240
Clarion - 7,620

Jefferson - 8,760




I MEAN -- REALLY --- COME ON NOW -- IS THAT ANY FAIR COMPARISONS ---  !!!!!

Just look AT HOW ELK COUNTY COULD PULL THE HARVEST FIGURES DOWN JUST BY THEMSELVES....


3 years for Elk -------16,819

3 years for Jefferson -29,695

Elk (which I know fairly well on this side) will NEVER and has NEVER had the harvests that Jefferson does.... and that's the over all problem with using deer harvests for the whole state or any particular WMU...

You have to compare like situations with like situations and WMUs are TOO BIG to do that and I think my example backs that up 1,000%.....

Comparing deer hunting in Jefferson County to deer hunting in  Elk..Clarion...or Forest is comparing apples to oranges epecially when talking harvest numbers...

but yet we are NOW in the same WMU and forced to do just that ....

AS for 2G.. I'm not going to figure out all those averages at this point.. BUT the same thing will hold true there too.... can't compare....

2G has Clearfield, Centre, McKean. Potter, Tioga.   all used to have GREAT harvets numbers.. and look what gets added to them ... Elk, Cameron, Clinton.... ALl VERY VERY LOW HARVEST..

Oh HECK just one year for example....
2002====
Cameron - 2325
Clinton - 5043
Elk - 6592
Total- 13,960

Here's two in that area and their figures ALONE are as good as the other three in that WMU....

Clearfield - 15,655
Tioga - 13,927



What say you ?????



JUST RIDICULOUS.... IMHO....

The deer numbers are still GREAT HERE IN JEFFERSON COUNTY..plain and simple.... and I do not believe the harvest rates are down by 19% (bucks) or even 5% (does)here in Jefferson County....

I know I did not get one for the first time ever and two neighbors who are usualy successful did not hunt last year either... so yes it may have gone down some  

--Last edited by Dr Trout on 2008-03-24 13:14:16 --

I have never approved of the WMUs....  

Counties are still the way to go...

The PGC has stated that they thought WMUs being larger would provide more opportunities to hunt other areas with in it rather than just within a county....



BULL -----

As I proved above --

why in the world would I move up into Elk..Forest..or Clarion county to hunt..... ??

there have NEVER been the number of deer in those counties  that I STILL HAVE right here around the house  

And the GOOD thing --- by reporting by WMUs only.. hunters have NO IDEA where the better numbers of deer are within a WMU.

Many may have been so excitied about hunting the big woods of the ANF (under the new WMU 2F) but had not idea there have not been many deer there for YEARS !!


I don't complain about the PGC much..but as those that are in Harrisburg and some of the local WCOs can attest too .. I have NEVER liked the WMUS for deer....

One observation that I wanted to point out.  I think the bad weather on the first day was the main reason for the low buck kill on the first day and I would assume a low doe kill on the first day as well.  With having a 2 week concurrent season the total doe harvest was not affected as much.  If we had a two or three day doe season with one day of bad weather, the doe kill would not have been close to what the PGC wanted.  
    As for shooting BB,I am all for not shooting one if I can avoid it, but too often its the situation at the time.  If I see a group of deer standing in front of me, I shoot the largest doe(more meat).  Last year, after seeing very few deer all season I walked up on a deer the last day of the season.  At about 125 yards there was no way to know.  Should I haved passed it up on the last day because it was by itself.  It turned out to be a doe but could have been a BB.  This past year I was watching the end of section of rhodadendrum.  A group of deer come out.  In a perfect world they would have followed the path and been 35 yards in front of me. Instead they got nervous and started to turn around.  I shot the lead deer after checking for horns.  Once again it was a doe, but it could very easily have been a BB.  At seventy five yards, all I knew is that it was legal. It's reasons like this that the BB harvest will never change much.  dd

i agree rich. my niece shot her first deer this year, a doe, well turned out to be a button buck but it was not characteristic of other button bucks, trailing the pack. it was right in the middle. they didn't know it was a button buck until they started to dress it. it had very small bumps.

Congrats to your niece....

a successful harvest is JUST THAT a successful harvest....

I try very hard to not shoot BBs.. I know all the things to look for to help ID them.. but the BBs themselves do not always act or look as described in article on IDing them...
I have shot BBs without realizing it..

BUT I must say having the two week season to work with instead of just a couple days sure helps in allowing ones I can't be positive about to walk..

there's always another day...



If a hunter does all that he or she can to make sure its not a BB and it still turns out to be one. that's fine with me..

The BB harvest will always be a part of the total...

doc, it's me, koho, i forgot my password for my koho sign on so i had to create this one.  

Okay ...cool !!!!

Quote :

rich wrote :       As for shooting BB,I am all for not shooting one if I can avoid it, but too often its the situation at the time.

I think that is all the PGC is asking.  Try to avoid if you can.  BB harvest will always happen but the numbers show that most of us(hunters) want to fill a tag more than helping in deer management.  

That is one point that I felt the PGC got misquoted on.  When I went to the meeting Alt headed up quite a few years ago,his stance was shoot does like normal. His response of identifying button bucks was aimed at hunters who did not want to shoot bb's.  Alt's belief was as long as the bb harvest stayed at aprox 25percent, there was nothing to worry about.  dd

Doc,

I agree and most do that the WMU's stink ...NY divides things even smaller than counties. As I have said previously, I like their system. I believe it to be superior to Pa's. They target bucks per squaremile per unit.

I'm a bit surprised by your statment of elk and forest county bringing jefferson down ... I believe there was a day when the opposite was true. But you have to go back to before you were around the big woods. Don't know if you know this but at one time Elk county accounted for over 5% of the deer kill in all of PA.

Yeah I have heard of those days,,,

WCO Bodenhorn talks of those days on this gameland tours.. but he also mentions how politics got involved and doe tag allocations went down to almost nothing and the herd grew and grew and ate itself out of good habitat and the harvest went down too....

Thanks to WCO Bodenhorn I have copies of all his stats for all counties for the past 20 years.... (before HR/AR)
and that's what I base 80% of my statements on...

Yes at one time you are right ... but in more modern times those counties have sucked for harvest numbers...
and I think the figures I posted support that claim.

And I strongly believe they help keep the 2F numbers down.


In talking to guys who hunt this part of Jefferson County MOST are not complaining when the conversation is one on one..

at the clubs and bars they either remain quiet or agree with the LOUDIEST side....

LOL