The House Judiciary Committee held a public hearing on crime, drugs and gun violence and House Bills 20, 22, 29, 784.
HB 20 Evans, D - (PN 45) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) providing for the offense of access to firearms by minors by stating that a person who stores or leaves a firearm on premises under his control and who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent or the person in charge of the minor or without the supervision required by law would keep the firearm in a securely locked box or container or in a location which a reasonable person would believe to be secure or secure the firearm with a trigger lock, except when he is carrying the firearm on his body or within such close proximity that he can retrieve and use it as easily and quickly as if he carried it on his body. The bill further states that a violation only occurs if the firearm stored or left on the premises is used in the commission of a crime. It does not apply if the minor obtains the firearm as a result of an unlawful entry by any person.
HB 22 Myers - (PN 47) Amends Title 18 (Crimes) by adding that no person may purchase more than one handgun in PA within any 30-day period. Also, no person may sell or cause to be sold to a person in PA more than one handgun within any 30-day period. A person that violates this section commits a summary offense and would pay a fine of $300. The bill establishes the Violence Prevention Fund. Money in the fund is appropriated to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency solely for purposes of violence prevention and youth violence prevention, including youth education and activities designed to prevent violence and grants to law enforcement agencies for equipment and training designed to prevent gun-related injuries. In addition to any other duty prescribed by this section, a seller of a handgun would request the Pennsylvania State Police to conduct a handgun purchase history check to investigate whether the prospective handgun purchaser is in compliance.
HB 29 Williams, J - (PN 54) Amends Title 18 (Crimes) providing for registry for lost or stolen firearms and for failure to report lost or stolen firearms. The Pennsylvania State Police would maintain a registry of all firearms reported lost or stolen in PA. The registry would contain the manufacturer, model, caliber, serial number and any other identifying information concerning any firearm reported lost or stolen, as well as the name of the lawful owner of the firearm. If a firearm is reported stolen to a local law enforcement agency, that agency would collect the required information and would submit it to the Pennsylvania State Police within 24 hours. A person who is the owner of a firearm that is lost or stolen and who fails, within 24 hours after the loss or theft is discovered, to report the loss or theft to an appropriate local law enforcement official commits a summary offense, punishable by a fine of up to $500. A person who is found to intentionally fail to report a loss or theft commits a misdemeanor of the first degree for a first offense and a felony of the third degree for any subsequent offense. Also, the court may enter an order prohibiting a person convicted for a violation of this section from the purchase or any other method of acquiring a firearm for a period of six months.
HB 784 Petri - (PN 903) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) further providing for the offense of sale or transfer of firearms by adding that anyone who knowingly or intentionally sells, delivers or transfers a firearm under circumstances intended to provide a firearm to any person who is unqualified or ineligible to control, possess or use a firearm would have a mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of five years. A second or subsequent violation would result in the permanent revocation of any license to sell, import or manufacture a firearm.
Members in attendance included Chairman Tom Caltagirone (D-Berks), Minority Chairman Ron Marsico (R-Dauphin), and Representatives Will Gabig (R-Cumberland), Carl Mantz (R-Berks), Chelsa Wagner (D-Allegheny), Glen Grell (R-Cumberland), Todd Rock (R-Franklin), Jewell Williams (D-Philadelphia), Tom Creighton (R-Lancaster), John Pallone (D-Westmoreland), Harold James (D-Philadelphia) and Kathy Manderino (D-Philadelphia).
Chairman Caltagirone noted Attorney General Tom Corbett submitted remarks for the record.
Thomas M. McMahon, Mayor of the City of Reading, testified on behalf of the PA League of Cities and Municipalities (PLCM). He stated violent crime doesn't just affect large cities, adding that violence in small and mid-sized cities is driving out those who are able to leave while other residents fear to go out at night. He stated PLCM convened a task force on gun violence, which he chaired, to determine how to make communities safer. McMahon offered the following recommendations:
Implement mandatory sentencing for repeat offenses of violent crime, as contained in HB 785
Limit handgun purchases to one every 30 days, with perhaps an exception for purchasing antique pairs, and limit straw purchases, as contained in HB 22
Define criminal gang activity, as contained in HB 326
Mandate that lost or stolen guns be reported within 24 hours of discovery, as contained in HB 29
McMahon also talked about violent crime in Reading, discussing instances where bullets have been fired into libraries and Head Start. He stated gun crime increased 42% from 2004 to 2005. He cited a survey in which 58% of respondents supported removing illegal guns from the state, and 74% indicated support for requiring retailers to videotape gun sales.
Rick Gray, Mayor of Lancaster, offered a perspective of how violent crime is affecting his city. He discussed shooting incidents in which innocent children were caught in the crossfire and shot. Gray stated this is not an issue of rights from his perspective because he sees the end result when he visits victims in the hospital or attends their funerals. He said with rights comes the responsibility to safely maintain one's firearms and added that the proposals being discussed today are not extreme and the reactions to them as such are shocking. Gray stated guns degrade quality of life and terrorize communities. He offered his support for the recommendations discussed by McMahon, commenting that he typically opposes mandatory sentences but in this case he is supportive because there is no reason for a repeat violent offender to have a gun. He also urged enactment a law of requiring lost or stolen guns to be reported because that is often used as an excuse in straw sales.
Rep. Gabig picked up on a comment by Gray that a jury wouldn't believe the "stolen" excuse and remarked that means the system is working. Gray replied that assumes a person would be charged and that simply isn't happening. He noted he was not referring to a specific case. Rep. Gabig commented that he witnessed several homicides while he worked as an assistant district attorney, but none of those homicides were committed by a firearm. He stated the greater problem is the lack of respect for human life in society, adding something much deeper is wrong. He commented the one gun a month law in Virginia did not help in the Virginia Tech shooting. It's the person behind the weapon that needs to be looked at, he concluded. Gray replied nearly all the murder cases he handled involved a firearm. He stated he is not arguing these reforms are a panacea, but they are a beginning. He agreed there are other problems that cause violence, but guns are a tool for broader scale.
Rep. Pallone commented on the statistic that of the 129 homicides in Philadelphia this year 108 were committed with guns and remarked that none of them were committed because of guns. Gray countered that is not necessarily true, explaining that with a gun it is not always the intended victim that gets hurt. He stated you can't control a bullet like you could a bat or your fists. Rep. Pallone responded that it takes a person to discharge the gun. He then asked how many of those 108 homicides involved illegal firearms, remarking that laws punish legal firearms but won't affect the illegal firearms. McMahon replied that data is not available due to federal laws. Gray commented that the country enacted stricter airline security based on single incidents and stated reasonable steps should be taken to limit gun crime.
Col. Jeffrey Miller, Commissioner of the PA State Police (PSP), stated a key to success is adequate police presence. He praised the Governor and General Assembly for increasing the complement of the State Police and funding for more cadets. He stated by December 2008 PA will have a full police complement. Col. Miller said gang suppression is a top PSP priority and discussed the various efforts across the state in gathering intelligence including gang training to all officers and municipal officers. He also discussed other programs and initiatives within PSP, such as PICS, Operation Triggerlock, PaCIC and participation with the ATF. Col. Miller stated 78% of all homicides involve a firearm and urged the legislature to help PSP prosecute straw purchasers by making theft of a gun a felony, requiring lost and stolen guns to be reported, limiting purchases to one gun a month, and allowing local communities to pass their own gun laws.
Minority Chairman Marsico noted the many proactive programs within PSP and asked about the impact of the proposed budget decrease. Col. Miller stated he had similar concerns, but PSP received a $7.8 million waiver on monies not used in this fiscal year to train cadets, so PSP will have ample funding for training. He stated most of the initiatives in the budget will be funded and PSP will utilities forfeiture funding options to purchase equipment. Minority Chairman Marsico then asked if PSP is able to determine the number of illegal firearms involved in crimes. Col. Miller replied not in all cases because they are restricted by federal regulations. He stated they are able to use the record of sale database if the gun is sold or transferred in PA. He added that the biggest challenge is the ability to restrict straw purchases, which is an increasing trend.
Minority Chairman Marsico asked Col. Miller if he has reviewed HB 326 regarding gang activity. Col. Miller had not. Minority Chairman Marsico commented he is trying to determine how criminal gang activity could be defined and investigated. Col. Miller commented it would have to be very strict and specific.
Minority Chairman Marsico then asked about local gun laws. Col. Miller replied the option is worth looking into because of the uniqueness of PA. He said ideally only larger municipalities, like first or second class cities, would be permitted to enact their own gun laws. If all municipalities could, he remarked, there could be uniformity issues.
Lastly, Minority Chairman Marsico asked Col. Miller if he supports removing the complement cap. Col. Miller replied he continues to believe that amount should be defined by the Governor and the General Assembly.
Rep. Gabig asked if the administration has a position on HB 760. John Ryan, Committee Executive Director, stated that bill was intentionally left off the agenda because it was not worth the time and effort. He noted he has not heard anything from the administration on the bill.
Rep. Gabig then asked for an explanation about the grading for stealing a firearm, stating that in 2000 it was graded as a felony and the General Assembly passed a law that was supposed to enhance the grading for those in the business but the courts have interpreted the law to mean simple possession is no longer a felony. Col. Miller agreed and urged the legislature to take the ambiguity out of the law. Ryan further explained that theft of a firearm used to be a third degree felony but when the law was changed theft become a second degree felony as did receiving stolen property as a business, but the word "gun" was removed from the second degree felony offense thereby leaving it in the general category based on value. He stated it was an unintentional mistake in drafting. Rep. Gabig also asked about including rifles as firearms, because they too can be used to commit violent crime.
Rep. Creighton asked if there are any efforts to create a universal database of incidents. Col. Miller explained PSP has Problem Specific Policing, which uses a program called Prophecy to chart crimes in all areas under PSP jurisdiction, but they don't have the ability to add in crimes reported by local police departments. He stated they are looking to use grants for a pilot program that would provide similar software to a city to allow the police to see patterns. Rep. Creighton asked what is needed to accomplish this. Col. Miller replied money to purchase software. He stated more data strengthens their ability to prosecute criminals. He noted PSP is also working with the New York Police Department and has had a number of successes in that collaborative. He said the goal is to tie all the systems together to search and make PA safer.
Rep. Pallone stated he is an advocate for law enforcement and is concerned about the budget cuts. He then expressed concern that "we're dealing with smoke in mirrors" and asked if most gun related activity originates from guns or if it is collateral to another crime, such as drugs. Col. Miller stated there is no way to separate drug activity from firearm activity because the firearm is so much a part of it. He said most firearms involved are illegally obtained or through straw purchases and reasonable steps need to be taken to limit access so this tool will not be used irresponsibly. He commented it seems access to firearms is so readily available that it is being used as a ready means to end a dispute. Rep. Pallone commented his issue is cars can kill people, but no one is pushing for limiting cars. He questioned if the elimination of guns will eliminate criminal activity, as it's the illegal gun activity that is killing people. He stated gun laws aren't "curing the virus". Col. Miller replied other countries that have less access to firearms have drug and gang activity, but the difference is the number of people being shot. Rep. Pallone countered this is just a band aid, as there is less value and respect for life so there is more willingness to use a gun.
Dana Alwine, Minority Executive Director, suggested allowing municipalities to enact gun laws could be rolled out on a pilot basis to first see how it goes before implementing it statewide. Col. Miller agreed that's a possibility and agreed to speak with his police people and get back to the committee.
Diane Edbril, Executive Director of CeaseFire PA testified by refuting what she referred to as the top 10 excuses why laws should not be enacted to restrict gun access.
Just enforce the current laws - Edbril argued that she supports reporting lost and stolen guns and limiting purchases to one gun a month because this goes hand in hand with combating gun violence. She said that guns are not found with their victims and they often times can't be traced.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people - Edbril stated that 65.7% of the people killed in PA are the results of handguns while knives only account for 7.5% of deaths. She stressed that if handgun access is reduced, conflicts will be less deadly.
One handgun per month will only hurt legal purchasers - Edbril said that the proposed legislation, House Bill 22, respects law abiding purchasers by not applying to rifles or shotguns and by providing exemptions for licensed gun collectors.
Gun violence is a Philadelphia problem - According to Edbril, gun crimes are committed in every town and county in PA and straw purchasers often travel to various counties to make purchases.
Gun traffickers will get guns someplace else - Edbril lamented that PA is the largest supplier of crime guns in the region and that more restrictive laws will drive up the price of guns from straw purchasers so much that it will take them out of the reach of most youth.
Pennsylvanians don't support more restrictive gun laws - Edbril stated that recent polls have shown that Pennsylvanians do support a one gun a month law.
The bill will never pass so why pass it out of committee - Edbril wondered why if it is doomed would people be afraid of passing it out and letting it be debated on the House floor. She stressed it is important for legislators to be put on the record as to where they stand on the issue.
You can't ration the bill of rights - According to Edbril, the Second Amendment has been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court as not giving a personal right to gun ownership. She added that no individual right is absolute.
Gun restrictions violate the PA Constitution - Edbril argued that the State Supreme Court has held that this right is tempered by public safety needs.
Guns keep us free - Edbril stated that while the U.S. began with an armed rebellion, PA is far from being free because it is being held hostage "by a small gang of thugs who have hoodwinked the legislature" from passing gun control legislation.
Staff began questions by stating that last session House Bill 1717 passed with bipartisan support through the work of various interest groups and that it created protection for victims of domestic abuse by enacting gun ownership restrictions. He said that to say the legislature has not passed gun legislation for 10 years is not true. Edbril clarified, stating that House Bill 1717 was not stand alone legislation but dealt with other issues. This prompted an immediate reply from the staffer who argued that it is wrong to devalue the impact of the gun restrictions in the bill because it contained other issues as well. Edbril closed by saying that while she agrees it is an important bill, a domestic abuser who wants to can still get an illegal gun.
Rep. Gabig said that language in her testimony calling member of the pro-gun lobby "thugs" and "gangs" is unfair and argumentative. He added that even though during a recent pro-gun rally two participants held up an offensive sign, this does not mean everyone in the rally can be characterized under the same broad brush stroke. Rep. Gabig said this is especially true given the fact that the offensive action was condemned by people on all sides of the issue.
Rep. Gabig next said that people from New York come down and shoot people in his district even though they have tougher guns laws than PA. He worried about her comments that the second amendment is meaningless and about placing criminal obligations on law abiding law gun purchasers. Edbril stated that she is not dismissing the Second Amendment but stressed that it refers to a "well regulated militia."
Rep. Gabig then asked her about the PA Constitution on the right of the people to own a gun. Edbril replied that the PA Supreme Court has said that this right is not absolute and has to be balanced with public safety.
This prompted Rep. Gabig to challenge that there is no evidence that a one gun a month limitation will save lives. Edbril said she begs to differ. Asked what evidence she has, Edbril stated that after Virginia enacted a one gun a month ban, there was a 60% drop in crime guns originating from that state. This prompted Rep. Gabig to state that she is talking about gun trafficking and he asked for evidence on the reduction of gun homicides. Edbril argued that New York has tougher gun laws and their homicide rate is lower the PA. She added that Philadelphia has the highest homicide rate in the country and other countries with tough gun laws have seen a decrease in homicides. Rep. Gabig countered that a September 27, 2006 article in the Philadelphia Inquirer stated that all three one gun a month states have homicide rates above the national average. He agreed that Philadelphia has problems and suggested that tougher policing and judicial sentencing are also needed there.

John Hohenwater, NRA State Liaison, stressed that no organization is more concerned about the criminal misuse of guns than the NRA. Stating that it is in the Association's best interest, Hohenwater stressed that freedoms should only be diminished for those that break the law. He said the NRA apposes the one gun a month bill because it is "feel good" legislation and only serves as a roadblock to law abiding gun purchasers. He stressed that felons should never be allowed to purchase a gun. According to Hohenwater, the ATF already tracks multiple gun purchases that occur within a month and transmits this information to local police. He also opposed House Bill 29 stating it makes a criminal out of victims of theft. He argued that oftentimes a person may not know their gun has been stolen until it is used in the commission of a crime. Hohenwater also argued against House Bill 20 stating the penalty provisions are unconstitutional. He stressed that gun accidents are decreasing in the U.S. and that education through programs such as the NRA's Eddie Eagle program has been shown to be the best way to protect children from gun accidents. He offered that the best way to eliminate urban violence is to insist on a zero tolerance for gun crimes, which is an approach that has been proven in areas like Virginia and in Pittsburgh. Hohenwater insisted that laws that are already on the books have to be enforced first because failure to do so empowers criminals.
Rep. Gabig began questions by asking for Hohenwater's reaction to reports that two people from this week's pro gun rally in the capitol held up a sign threatening a legislator. Hohenwater said it is a shame that this action occurred but said that when any group holds a rally for 400-500 people it is impossible to control the actions of all of those assembled.
Minority Chairman Marsico said he was involved several years ago with the Eddie Eagle education program and asked what could be done to implement it in PA school districts. Hohenwater said that while the NRA will give a lot of the materials for the program, money is still required. He added that accidents from gun deaths are now one quarter of what they were in the 1940s and that violent crime is at an all time low. He continued, stating that many countries that have enacted gun bans have actually seen crime rates increase and that while crime in Philadelphia is still problematic, the city's murder rate is still lower than it was 20 years ago. He insisted that Philadelphia needs to "step up" with more programs to address numerous social problems that exist there.
Rep. Mantz wondered how much prosecutorial action has resulted from the ATF submitting information to local sheriffs on multiple gun purchasers in their area. Hohenwater said he doesn't believe areas like Philadelphia are being aggressive enough with this data. He said that if manpower is the issue, then more police should be added to the street. Hohenwater lamented the fact that the Chief of Police in Philadelphia does not believe that adding more police will reduce crimes although this goes against everything that is known about law enforcement. Hohenwater closed, saying that another problem is that Philadelphia prosecutors only get to spend about one hour per case so oftentimes look to plead out the case, which has resulted in most cases dealing with repeat offenders.
Asked if federal criminal penalties come into play in these cases, Hohenwater stated that they can but if they are not mandated the criminals know they can get away with breaking the law.
Staff questioned if Hohenwater is saying that prosecutors and the police are failures. Hohenwater clarified that there has been a failure to prosecute criminals and he suspects this has a lot to do with available money. He added that there are 2,000 outstanding warrants in Philadelphia. Staff argued that PA has mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes and these have not impacted crime rates over the years. Hohenwater said that is because they have not been consistently used. He stated that 50% of all violent crimes occur in Philadelphia while only 12% of the state's population is represented there.
Staff next asked if the ATF reports for multiple gun purchasers is triggered if someone purchases five guns a month from five different gun stores. Hohenwater acknowledged that it would not catch this sort of purchasing, but said the PA State Police would have a record of these purchases.
Asked if he would be in favor of the State Police being able to cross reference their gun purchase records by some established standard, Hohenwater explained that the NRA is concerned what the State Police is doing with this data.
Rep. Gabig expressed displeasure that even with all of the crime problems in Philadelphia and elsewhere, the Governor's budget proposes to cut funding for the State Police and the Attorney General. He wondered how Philadelphia would be able to get through its 2,000 outstanding warrants without additional resources. Hohenwater expressed his belief that the government needs to expend more dollars for Philadelphia to run programs that are known to be effective in curbing violent crimes. He added that the Blue Print for a Safer Philadelphia report, which was released several years ago, identified many of these programs.
Walter Phillips, Chairman of the PA Commission on Crime and Delinquency, lamented that there were 700 gun deaths in PA last year and no major town has escaped this. He stressed this is not just a drug dealer's problem and meaningful laws are need to reduce gun violence to combat the issue from all sides including access to illegal guns, poverty, police and alternative dispute resolutions. He offered support for legislation to require the reporting of a lost or stolen firearm within 24 hours and to allow cities to pass stricter firearm laws than the state if they want to for their own safety. Phillips also stressed that possession of a stolen firearm should be a felony and that a one gun a month restriction is the most effective way to combat straw purchasers.
Rep. Gabig asked if Phillips could confirm that 50% of the violent crimes in the state are committed in Philadelphia and if he did not know this, who would know. Phillips acknowledged he did not know and suggested that the State Police would have these records.
Asked if the number of crimes in the city would be reduced if Philadelphia went after the 2,000 outstanding warrants, Phillips argued that many of these warrants are for minor crimes and the city would need more resources to do this.
Rep. Gabig asked if a crack down on all crimes, major and minor, like was done in New York, would have an impact in Philadelphia. Phillips said that this type of program was put into place for awhile with good results but it was later discontinued.
Rep. Gabig argued that resources should be put into proven programs that we know will work rather than programs like one gun a month where there is no empirical evidence that this will impact crime rates. Phillips said that information on the success of one gun a month program cannot be ascertained because the federal government will only release paper records and not electronic files of the impact on states.
Chairman Caltagirone stressed that credit has to be given to Rep. Dwight Evans (D-Philadelphia) for all of his hard work in implementing a variety of programs aimed at combating violence in Philadelphia including economic development, education and housing programs. He said there are a lot of underlying issues surrounding the violence in Philadelphia and using programs that work makes more sense than building more prisons.
Rep. Manderino said that talk about limited resources for Philadelphia is frustrating when her calls to put more money into the Blue Print for a Safe Philadelphia and other programs were defeated by the House last session.
Ann Schwartzman, Director of Policy for the Pennsylvania Prison Society, presented testimony which highlighted her organization's desire to provide safety to Pennsylvania's citizens. This should not be done through incarceration alone, since there is currently a $1.6 billion budget for prison systems, with a 13% increase in the coming year. She said that the expense for an inmate is roughly $30,000 per year, an unacceptable cost considering that students only cost taxpayers $10,000 annually. Incarceration without adequate rehabilitation programs only leads to additional crime and violence, with a destabilizing affect on community life. Neighborhoods that are the most affected by crime are often inhabited by children and their foster parents or grandparents, have an abundance in poverty and a lack of opportunity for youths who have a parent (or both parents) in prison. The over 2.5 million children with parents serving time and they have a lack of self-esteem, social and emotional problems and anger management issues, Schwartzman said. Since their parents are often in jails over 100 miles from their homes, visitations are difficult and the children grow up without a strong parental influence. Upon their release from prison many parents do not want to return to their neighborhoods due to the high crime rate and they are unable to pay child support because of an inability to get a job. The problems are cyclical, and Schwartzman noted that she fears the next generation of criminals is located in the very areas where there are currently high crime rates.
These factors have led the PA Prison Society to alter their focus on dealing with inmates, Schwartzman stated. Re-entry programs need to be facilitated, including a strategy for parenting and child-rearing. Some programs have been instituted with success, such as the Mom Mobile program, which provides prenatal care for female inmates and care for their children. The Support for Kids with Incarcerated Parents (SKIP) program allows children with imprisoned parents to spend time with adults who care about them and other children that are in the same situation. The Comprehensive Communities Program was adopted in the 1990s to encourage area police officers to interact with their community in a friendly manner, and the Open Schools Program encourages schools to keep the school open at the end of the day instead of padlocking the doors, and inviting the children to spend time with their teachers, area officers and other children rather than heading to the streets at the end of the school day.
Schwartzman said that while the Society has no single response on how to handle the handgun availability problem, they encourage open conversation and a commitment from the legislature to reach compromise on an effective solution.
A committee staff member asked whether the Prison Society has heard of legislation sponsored by Rep. Beverly Mackereth (R-York) that would create a center for evidence-based crime prevention within the PA Commission on Crime and Delinquency. Schwartzman answered that she has not heard of the bill but believes it is a good concept.
Melody Zullinger provided testimony from the PA Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs. She said that honest gun owners do not condone crime and violence, but the problems inherent in Philadelphia and other Pennsylvania cities will not be solved by disarming victims. Rather, criminals need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, Zullinger said. The Federation does not support proposals for gun rationing, since states that have implemented these laws have seen no decrease in criminal gun activity. Zullinger stated that straw purchasing would still be rampant with one handgun per month laws, since criminals only need a single handgun to commit a crime. Additionally, straw purchasers are often given light sentences or no sentences at all, enabling them to repeat their criminal activity. Simply stated, the Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs feels that offenders will continue to exercise disregard for gun control laws if the terms of their conviction are too light to act as a deterrent.
Zullinger also expressed opposition to legislation that would require gun owners to notify police within 24 hours of a gun being lost or stolen. She said that her husband once mistakenly lost a family-owned firearm and she was unaware until the State Police called her asking whether she had lost it. Were a law in effect that required her to report the firearm missing, Zullinger said that her failure to file a report would make her a criminal and it would become her responsibility to prove otherwise. She said that she was speaking for gun owners statewide by expressing her fear that such a law would function as a weapon of the State Police to harm those that are simply victims of theft. Zullinger concluded with an excerpt from Police Inspector Joseph Fox who said that guns on the street are the main cause of crime and violence, and police are faced with arresting the same people for the same crimes. The PFSC will continue to oppose legislation restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens, she said.
Kim Stoufer, the Allegheny County Leader of Firearms Owners Against Crime, said that the constitution supports the right of citizens to bear arms without question; and despite that Pennsylvania now has one of the strongest prohibitions of gun ownership in the country. He pointed to research concluding that there are no current gun control laws that are able to cut down on prevention of gun violence or suicides; to the case of Great Britain which has a staggeringly high gun crime rate despite the initiation of laws that prohibit the use of weapons; and said that in-state cases like the city of Philadelphia have shown numerous times that criminals are not serving adequate sentences for their disregard of gun law.
Rep. Kathy Manderino (D-Philadelphia) disagreed with Zullinger's theory on being falsely accused for a crime if a gun was not reported to be lost or stolen within a certain period of time. For example, she stated, if her car were to get stolen, the theft not reported, and an incident occurred where someone were killed with her vehicle, she would believe that the police would have every right to question her about the ownership of the car and how it came to be in the hands of a criminal. Zullinger said that she has no problem with questioning when it is needed, but the victim of the theft becomes a suspect in the resulting crime. Stoufer added that there is a national tracing center to track firearms but resources don't always exist in law enforcement departments to utilize this tool. He continued by saying that the perpetrator is already a criminal at the point where they have illegal possession of the gun and file off the serial number, so they should be prosecuted on those counts alone. Rep. Manderino mentioned that she has heard of technology that allows criminal units to study bullets and determine what gun the bullet came from. Stoufer answered that experts have shown that this method will cost taxpayer dollars that the state lacks for a system that has proven to be ineffective. Rep. Manderino responded that she would like to see information on why the system doesn't work, adding that the legislature is always looking for new ways to deter gun violence.
A committee staff member said that while the loss of a firearm can be misinterpreted, proof is always needed before a conviction - even though an inquiry might occur that potential exists for every criminal statute. The system is not perfect, he added, but the best judgments are made after analyzing the situation. Stoufer replied that throwing out illegal gun charges in the hopes of a guilty verdict only encourages the criminal to use the guns, because they know that they can't get charged with illegal possession and will commit the crime again.
Detective Joe Bielevicz of the Firearms Tracking Unit of the Pittsburgh Police Department, said guns are taken to the streets in two ways: either by stealing a firearm or through the more preferable method of straw purchasing. Illegal firearms in Pittsburgh's streets have been tied directly to the drug trade, either so dealers can protect themselves or so they can feed their habit for narcotics. Bielevicz said that there are three pieces of legislation in the House that he feels would greatly decrease the number of illegal firearm crimes statewide:
HB 29, which would require a licensed gun owner to report their firearm stolen or missing within 24 hours of the incident, would aid the police in tracking down the criminal who stole the weapon. Bielevicz said that 80% of recovered firearms last year were those that were reported stolen, and that such a law would result in quicker convictions for straw purchasers
HB 19, which would prohibit serious drug offenders from being able to purchase or transfer firearms
HB 28, which would warrant prosecution for individuals carrying a firearms without licensure.
Bielevicz also submitted suggestions to prohibit gun violence, including a separate statute for straw purchasing, a law convicting those who arm violent criminals and are guilty of trading guns for drugs, and a requirement that all trades on guns are conducted by a licensed gun dealer. There are currently no records necessary for trades on guns after the initial purchase, Bielevicz explained. Additionally, Bielevicz said that he respects the opinions of others who oppose gun control, but he resents anyone outside of law enforcement stating what is and what is not needed in getting illegal firearms off the streets.
Minority Chairman Marsico (R-Dauphin) asked if any other tracking units exist in Pennsylvania. Bielevicz said that he is familiar with a unit in Philadelphia and he has spoken several times with the State Police in Harrisburg regarding gun tracking. Minority Chairman Marsico then asked what steps need to be taken to establish a firearms tracking unit in a locality. Bielevicz replied that it depends on the size of the city and that officers need to be educated on the subject, adding that most officers are unfamiliar with laws dealing with gun transactions. His unit in Pittsburgh has four detectives and one supervisor, but most of the staff spends their time tracing the guns rather than conducting investigations, Bielevicz explained.
Rep. Will Gabig (R-Cumberland) said that while the legislature attempted to tighten the law making it a felony to be in possession of a stolen gun, it has been misinterpreted to an extent and allowed for more illegal firearms to get on the streets. Detective Bielevicz replied that is because it is often difficult to prove that the stolen firearm, once it is recovered, was illegally possessed by the current owner or was illegally sold to them. Rep. Gabig stated that although the Rendell administration claims that gun control is a priority, it is difficult to believe considering that funding has been cut in this year's budget for both the State Police and the Attorney General's office. When asked how many current stolen gun cases there are, Bielevicz replied that there are very few and added that there are perhaps a couple hundred reports of stolen guns a year, most of which end in burglary reports. Since burglary cases have very low clearance, he estimated that less than 20% of these reports result in a conviction. Rep. Gabig said that he is unsure as to how the accurate reporting of a stolen firearm within 24 hours will cut down on crime. Detective Bielevicz said that it will limit the number of straw purchases; since they will report it stolen fearing that it will be recovered. Under current law, they can claim that they weren't aware they had to report the gun missing if they are questioned by police. Rep. Gabig said that he would certainly be in favor of educating the public on reporting their gun stolen, but he doesn't necessarily feel that a law is needed to enforce this.
Rep. Manderino inquired what Bielevicz meant by saying that HB 29 is a method of getting guns on the "front end". He answered that this means that a situation with unusual circumstances could be examined more quickly and the person could be investigated at the point of purchase, rather than months later when the firearm becomes more difficult to trace. Rep. Manderino asked what would happen if guns were to be considered a civil liability when stolen rather than recognized as a crime. He replied that the problem with this is that the people that the police are looking to target wouldn't be impacted and would not be enable to pay the costs anyway. Bielevicz added that it is typical for straw purchasers to make 10-15 gun purchases per year, since any more would be too easy to detect. Rep. Manderino then asked whether he had any comment on the subject of identification using ammunition and Bielevicz answered that he does not have enough knowledge on the issue.

Rep. Carl Mantz (R-Berks) asked about the percentage of straw purchased guns. Bielevicz said they account for approximately 30% of purchases. Rep. Mantz questioned if that problem has been largely a statewide issue and the answer was that the main problems have been in the city of Philadelphia.
A committee staff member asked whether serial numbers on guns can be found in multiple places on the weapon. Bielevicz said that some guns have several identification areas but many do not. However, criminal units can often utilize acid to raise serial numbers that criminals believe to have erased, he added.
Calvin Johnson, Secretary, Department of Health, provided testimony to Committee members highlighting concerns about gun violence and applying a comprehensive approach to the problem. The criminal justice and public health issue requires a sound public health approach, said Secretary Johnson, and considering that Pennsylvania leads the nation in the per capita rate of black homicide victims, according to a Washington-based Violence Policy Center, the state should take immediate action to address the causes and offer interventions. The healthcare system sustained $107 million in hospitalization charges associated from gun violence, he emphasized.
To address the impact of gun violence in Pennsylvania, Secretary Johnson recommended a public health approach, which is similar to dealing with a disease outbreak. In general, he suggested identifying the causes, examining the context in which the outbreak occurs, applying immediate, short, and long-term interventions, and subsequently evaluating the impact of those interventions.
Secretary Johnson further discussed a pilot program, Pennsylvania Injury Reporting and Intervention System (PIRIS), to reduce gun violence in Philadelphia to collect information regarding violent deaths and firearm injuries, target interventions and analyze the current gun violence reduction efforts. PIRIS has received over 100 referrals since April 2007, and of those referrals, 92.4% are African-American men, and 60% of participants do not have a high school diploma or general education degree (GED) said Secretary Johnson. He added that the most common service provided by the program is to maintain health status through keeping medical appointments, taking medication, or obtaining education and employment.
Rep. Gabig commented that the high school dropout rate is high and asked if there are any statistics regarding children born out of wedlock and gun violence. Secretary Johnson reiterated that 60% of PIRIS participants, mostly African-American males, do not have a diploma, although he did not have data for out of wedlock births. In response, Rep. Gabig remarked that many children are growing up without fathers. Noting programs in his district that are designed to reach male youth, Rep. Gabig asked if these types of programs are effective in preventing violence. Secretary Johnson said it is difficult to establish correlation between absentee fathers and violence. He noted, however, that sometimes second and third generations of families are involved in criminal activity or unemployed. There are kinds of programs that have a positive impact, such as education, job and skill training, and opportunity, explained Secretary Johnson. Rep. Gabig said he was attempting to determine prevention strategies for at-risk children, to which Secretary Johnson said one challenge is to get to children when parents are at work.
Next, David Freed, District Attorney of Cumberland County, and Edward Marsico, District Attorney of Dauphin County, spoke in support of increasing the number of law enforcement officers and mandatory minimums for crimes committed with firearms. Freed explained that the vast majority of crimes include the use of guns that are either stolen or obtained through straw purchases typically used as cash payments for drugs. In Cumberland County, Freed noted that the majority of murders are drug- or domestic-related. He specifically urged Committee members to increase the penalty for illegal distribution of firearms while upholding the right to bear arms. Regarding HB 29, however, Freed supported the gun registry but not the penalties for neglecting to report firearms. In addition to a gun registry, Freed indicated his strong support to increase mandatory minimums for gun-related crimes.
Marsico also made similar recommendations and applauded prior efforts by the General Assembly for passing the five-year mandatory minimum for gun crimes and for increasing funding for criminal justice activities. He explained that looking for new technology and new methods to address the problem of violence is an on-going process, and considering the rise in juvenile crimes committed with guns, Dauphin County is facing new challenges. Marsico suggested that if lawmakers wanted to "get serious" about gun violence they could increase the mandatory minimum to ten years. However, the direct filing of gun crimes coupled with mandatory minimums has made an impact, he said. By bolstering local and state police units, he said, the response time to crime scenes and surveillance could be improved. As members of the District Attorneys' Association in Pennsylvania, Marsico and Freed pledged their commitment to working on approaches to mitigating gun violence.
Minority Chairman Marsico commended their recommendations and asked if the District Attorney's Association specifically supports amending the Crimes Code to expand mandatory minimums. According to Marsico, the Association does not take an official position on the legislation, although aspects of the proposals are favored, particularly regarding increasing the penalty for juveniles.
Minority Chairman Marsico then asked how many warrants remain unserved, to which Marsico replied Dauphin County is experiencing a problem with warrants not being served.
Referring to earlier testimony from Detective Bielevicz, Minority Chairman Marsico asked if there is a program like the one in Pittsburg for tracking firearms. The Detective works with the ATF, said Marsico, adding that Dauphin County does not have a mechanism for tracking stolen weapons.
"What has happened in the criminal justice field is the juvenilization of the crime," said Rep. Gabig. He explained that drug dealers use young children as "drug mules" to avoid more serious crimes and supply them with weapons. The crimes are becoming more serious and rampant among juveniles, he remarked, and stated HB 784 would make the first offense for a straw purchase a mandatory five-year minimum. Freed concurred with Rep. Gabig and said the public has the right to be protected, particularly against parolees and recidivists.
Rep. Manderino expressed concern about treating juveniles as adults, rather she suggested "hammering down" on adults who take advantage of children. Rep. Gabig interjected by saying strong families is an important factor. Referring to Marsico's comment about increasing the mandatory minimum to ten years, Rep. Manderino acknowledged that she does not support building more prisons as a result of increasing mandatory minimums and therefore housing more prisoners. To clarify, Marsico said that he "threw the number out there" and does not support a ten year mandatory minimum. However, he pointed out that 16-year olds are becoming more sophisticated criminals and drug dealers. He added that crimes are typically committed between the hours of 10 p.m. and 3 a.m. and thus strategies like after-school programs may not have a strong effect on juvenile crime. Rep. Manderino also remarked that she appreciated the District Attorneys' Association taking a strong stance on the issue of rehabilitation in prisons.
Minority Chairman Marsico asked how or where guns are being obtained illegally. The number of straw purchases in Dauphin County is increasing while some are stolen, replied Marsico. "People are driving to Harrisburg to trade drugs for guns," he added. However, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh have more problems with straw purchasing, he remarked. "How do you know where to go for guns," asked Minority Chairman Marsico. If we have more police, we can better target them and follow the gun trade, concluded Marsico.
Dr. Alan Krug, Firearm Legislation Consultant, provided suggestions for reducing gun violence in Pennsylvania. The problem has not changed over 40 years, he said, and still remains a battle over limiting the rights of law-abiding gun owners and sportsmen. According to Dr. Krug, 1.4 million warrants, most of which are for felonies, remain unserved in Pennsylvania, yet if there were more law enforcement officers, the problem could improve.
As a graduate from Virginia Tech, Dr. Krug expressed deep concern about gun violence and suggested including mental health and juvenile checks for firearms purchases. "The citizenry is being asked to only buy one gun a month, but we haven no information on straw purchases," he emphasized, adding that meaningful data should be gathered on straw purchases. Centre County, where Dr. Krug resides, does not have a problem with straw purchases, he said. Straw purchases are oftentimes occurring in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and other cities. Dr. Krug also raised the issue of a license to carry a gun. "Every person has a right to carry," he stressed. If an individual has a gun stolen and neglects to report it, it should not be considered a crime, said Dr. Krug.
Chairman Caltagirone pointed out that the issue of mental health was already implemented as part of the background check process, although mental health experts were concerned about exposing that information to members of the public.
Rep. Manderino asked for clarification regarding his remark that Pennsylvania is assisting felons with committing crimes. She cautioned him about "wordsmithing" and asked if he was referring to letting inmates out of prison early. In response, Dr. Krug said he was referring to the premature release of criminals due to prison-overcrowding.
Robert Martin, Chief of Police of Susquehanna Township, and William Smith, Chief of Police of Derry Township, presented the viewpoint of public servants "in the business of saving lives." Martin offered his support for any measure toughening the sale and responsibility of owning a weapon, and also asserted the need for more police officers on the streets. He pointed out he doesn't want patrolmen "on every corner," but simply enough to offset the current eroding number of officers in departments across the state. Martin explained extra officers would allow for police to make a difference in communities, instead of moving from call-to-call as they are currently forced to do. He encouraged members of the committee to examine the Police Executive Research Forms (PERF) website, which houses a number of studies comparing the increase in violent crime to the lack of police on the street, and asserted the need to address the proliferation of assault weapons throughout PA. Speaking momentarily as a private citizen, Martin also emphasized his opinion that gun owners have an inherent duty to safeguard their firearms.
William Smith, Chief of Police of Derry Township, voiced doubts that Rep. Perzel's "10,000 Cops Proposal" will come to fruition, and observed that the 1,165 municipal police departments in the state make for a highly fragmented law enforcement community. He suggested reducing that fragmentation by conducting a program of consolidation. He stressed he is not proposing the implementation of county departments, but remarked the fact that 65% of police departments have fewer than ten officers and 45% with fewer than five makes for a redundant system. Smith offered that the legislature can help through providing incentives, ultimately freeing up state troopers from local law enforcement duties, and allowing municipal departments to work on grassroots initiatives. He explained Dauphin County's particular success in implementing an inter-municipal drug task force, traffic accident investigation team, and forensics squad, but noted such cooperation among townships is not the norm across the state. As a representative also of the PA Chiefs of Police Association, Smith reminded committee members that in 2001 the police accreditation program was established with startup funds gleaned from PCCD, and notified them that the program is in need of further funds.
Rep. Gabig remarked he has broached the county police issue in the past, but has been "pounded" by the State Police and the press. He insisted that the idea still merits consideration. He continued, stating there is a need to correct a court ruling that currently precludes Sheriffs from participating in joint task forces.
Rep. Marsico asked if it would be possible to institute an inter-municipal firearm tracking unit in Dauphin County. Martin warned it might be cost-prohibitive, and might be better explored as a regional program.
Report prepared by,
Kimberly Hess, Eric A. Failing, Lindsay Meehan, Amy Richards, & Mike Howells pf PA Legislative Services